How Dr. Uché Blackstock Is Creating a Future for Black Women in Medicine

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Welcome everybody. Uh I like to do very amazing introductions, but

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I'm not good at them, so I just kind of get to it. Today we have Dr. Blackstock. And I went with doctor uh first because

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I respect her so much. She's so amazing. Um and before we start, I mean, oops, I

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have a little confession because uh I got to explain how we met. So Jordan,

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the way we met is I kind of stalked her on LinkedIn cuz she's going crazy. She's

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this pandemic, this post pandemic, she's everywhere. And I'm like, u,

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you know, hey, hey, hey, can we, you know, because, you know, I just respect what you do and the fact that you got up

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in spaces and really spoke from the heart. So, welcome. Thank you, Buchar. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming.

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Thanks for having me. Move. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I don't want to go all the way back

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to the beginning, but uh, the first time I saw you speak in person was at I think

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it was at anime. Um, and it was a fireside chat. Was it? Yeah, it was anime. Was it me or was it or was it

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Nazi? It was Nazi. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was a fireside chat. And you said something that I think um really struck me that I

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think a lot of times when you talk about being a physician, being a black physician, being a black woman physician that we're going to go, we're going to

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go there. I want to talk about all of that. But you really come at it from a place

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of strength, not a place of weakness, right? It's a place of, you know, I belong. Now, people treated you

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differently, right? But I love the strength and confidence and that you that you brought to that conversation.

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But I want you to tell me when you weren't strong like cuz now

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you're strong now. Was it were you always this strong amazing woman bringing energy and bringing, you know,

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inspiration to the rest of us or, you know, did this come out of some tough times?

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Right. Yeah. No, I I would say it came at it came at a tough times. I feel like I always had it in me. Um,

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and I think I was in environments that boxed me in and limited me. And you

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know, I had this kind of come to Jesus moment when I was in academic medicine. You I was doing DI work and I was like,

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listen, you are a brilliant woman and you're not able to do the work that you

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want to do authentically. like you're under a microscope um and you should take this show on the

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road. And so I, you know, made this decision to leave my academic job. I had like three or four titles. I had a great

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salary. People looked at me like I probably had the perfect life, but I actually was quite um miserable.

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I wasn't fulfilled. And so I made this decision to leave my my academic job as

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an associate professor. And I said, I'm going to, you know, work on my consulting firm, Advancing Health Equity. I worked part-time in urgent

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care to pay the bills and that was December of 2019. Wow. Wow. That's right. That's right. Co

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is already hitting at that point. But certain places I didn't I didn't I didn't know. I was I was like, "Oh, I'm

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just going to like um you know, streamline my life." Like you know, a few days I'll work on the business, a

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few days I'll go I'll work in urgent care. And um I was working in urgent care near where I lived in my old

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neighborhood in Brooklyn. And things were going great. January, February, I was like, "This is great. I'm walking to

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work. Urgent care is so much easier than the ED, right? Like, this is great." And then March

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hits and we're the epicenter of the pandemic and I literally see at my urgent care

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like the browning of my patients. Like I see essential workers coming in like you

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know, black and brown people. It was really diverse like I saw because it's it's gentrified Brooklyn. So I would see

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people people who could work from home. I didn't see them instead. I was like, I got to write about this. So I started I wrote my

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first op-ed about what I thought was going to be racial inequities in the pandemic by the end of March and it was

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published. Well, yeah. I mean, you hit it right and even before any of the data came out cuz

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I was like, I need to use my voice in this moment. Yeah. Do you So I was I was driving to

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work today. Well, I I don't really drive to work because I have a Tesla and I

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like to use auto my nose. No, you can. Yeah, you're good.

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Um, and I thought to myself, so so I know that you, you know, very successful

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author and and I think, you know, again, at the end of the day, for me, from from a fans perspective, you're telling your

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story, right? I mean, at the end of the day, I think how well you write is not as important as the story you're trying

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to tell. And I'm thinking to myself as as Mr. Tesla is driving me to work that

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I I think in my world that experience is I would love to write. I'd love to just

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I always tell people I'm not a CEO who writes like if you read what I write it

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has nothing to do with healthcare. It's all over the place. I want to be a writer who happens to be a CEO. And I think that it's very

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empowering to do what you did, which I think everybody out there is probably thinking like, I'm in this job. It pays

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the bills. I even not even pays the bills. It exceeds my bills. It's amazing. It does. I got a title,

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but there's something that I want to do. That is why I was put here on this earth. Yes. Yes.

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And to be h to have the guts and the emotional fortitude to say, you know what, I'm going to jump in. But can I

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say that that decision was well actually it was like a lot of little decisions that then came into a big decision. A

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lot of small moments that added up but I was scared. I always say that like

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just because you're brave or doesn't mean that you're not scared.

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That's You got to say that again. Just because you're brave doesn't mean that you're not scared. Like I was like

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girl what are you doing? But part of me was like, but you you are that you're

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that chick. Like you you you'll be able to do this. You I mean I I had done so much even in academic medicine on my own

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without much mentoring. Like just what I'd done for myself. And I was just like

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just like take take this um like bet on yourself. Yeah.

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Bet on yourself. And I and I realized that if you bet on yourself, you can

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never go wrong. Yeah, I think that's that's I think that's a true statement.

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But you don't know that. You don't know that. So you have to take that leap of faith. That leap of faith is scary.

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Yeah. Yeah. Now so you you one of the things that I So there's two major

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things that I talk I like to talk about. One is all those people who mentored you

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or is is there somebody that you can look at one or two people where you could say without this person I'm never

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going this direction. Is there do you have that? Yeah. No, I have a few people. Okay. Um it's interesting. I have a few people

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but Okay. I have a few people. One is a woman that I wrote about very briefly in the book. um actually a white woman um

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she was slightly she was more senior than me in a different department internal medicine and I kind of saw like

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what she was going through. Yeah. like she was, you know, a little bit ahead of me and saw like this really

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brilliant woman that was being very like restricted by the powers that be, like wasn't taking on certain roles, wasn't

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getting advancement, right? But which she and I would meet, right? And kind of like she would share like lessons learned with me. Um, and I don't

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know why like she just had this she just wanted to support me. Yeah. Yeah. No, there's I think there's

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there's people like that. I mean, I can think throughout my life that are just like why did you do that? Why did you support

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me through that when you really didn't need to? Right? And I feel like maybe she saw something in me like or I don't know,

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maybe she was just being like a nice person, but like I think I feel like she saw something in me that I probably

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didn't notice yet. Yes. Yes. Or or recognize yet. Um and like I I ran

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into her last year at AAMC and I just I said, you know, you you're you're one of the reasons why I'm I'm where I am right

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now. And she's like, I I cannot even believe that. I'm like you are one of the reasons because I think when you

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have people who like believe in you when you are having self-doubts that means so much and

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since I left academic medicine I've had so the people who are on my team like my talent agent my book agent um like my PR

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person like these are people who like they really they believe in me they believed yeah and like my talent agent saw me on air

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the first time I was on air. Wow. And I were I was like I was when I look at that video I'm like I was a

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bumbling fool. What was I wearing? I had no makeup on. And she messaged me like right after

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that first appearance and said, "Dr. Blackstock, can we talk? I would love to represent you." That's awesome. And she said, "Cuz I saw your passion."

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That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, I talk about in the in in less than 1% I talk about Bob McKillop who's Steph Curry's

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coach. And Steph Curry's untouchable now, right? I mean, we we kind of knew him. My sister went to

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my sister, my daughter went to camps and uh she was Athena was MVP in his camp

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way before he blew up. Um but you look at at at Coach McKillhop who was his

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coach Pat Davidson allowed him to take shots that nobody else got to take. Now he perfected it.

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No, no doubt he's performing. But if he has a coach that says, "No, you're not taking those shots." We have a whole different story. And so I think

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that there there are these people, you know, in our lives that, you know, support us in ways where we don't, you

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know, we get to take shots that we shouldn't take and then we have outcomes that we, you know, in our minds maybe we shouldn't

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have. Yeah. And I have to also like give big ups to my therapist who I've been seeing for the last like six years through like

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through my divorce, through my career transitions, who like literally this

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woman has like helped me process everything. And it's just like I you

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know when my book when my book came out, she sent me flowers and this card that said, "I knew you were always a star.

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I I've never seen you in and I know some of it is staged. I

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mean, so to speak, right? You're on stage. You're on TV. You're not going to go on TV and, you know, you're

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transparent, but you're not going to say a bunch of the stuff that is really hurting you. Yeah. But I've never seen I', you know, I've

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seen you in different situations. You're not an unhappy person. you're

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always like big smile re you know radiating bringing people to you.

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Are

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there dark times? Oh yeah. I mean I think um you know one thing and we were talking about you know

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before this but you know I think my mother's death when I was 19 um that is like

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um I may tear up a little bit but losing her has been like is a life-defining

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moment for me. Felt like the rug was pulled from underneath me like to have the person who

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just was my biggest cheerleader. Like literally my biggest cheerleader,

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you know, and my mom my mom, you know, just what she went through in her life, you know, born born into poverty, raised

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on public assistance, first person in her family to go to college. Then then she had a a a professor at Brooklyn

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College, black man, who saw her potential and said, "You should apply to medical school." Wow. And she did. Got into Harvard Med. then

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after Harvard med could have gone anywhere but came back to New York City and I'm trained at Harlem Hospital and

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then practiced in the same neighborhood in Brooklyn that she grew up in. So like I'm like I just like you know this woman is just and just

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that's the thing I feel like when people meet me like they meet her like people who knew my mom they she just radiated

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love. She radiated love. She radiated community. So I feel like part of my job and that's why the book is called Legacy

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like is continuing her legacy. That's awesome. That's awesome. And I think that what I love about the story,

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what you write about and and what you've lived, your experience is that you I always tell my kids, my kids, so I have

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to go back. So my kids like they're like three and five, maybe four and six.

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Whenever you start school, um, and they both go to this, you know, this charter

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school in the little lake neighborhood that we're at. And so it's Black History Month and they're

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like, um, so they come home with these assignments and they're like, you know, this slavery this, slavery that. And I'm

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like, no. I said this. So they're like, where where are we from? I said, you're from kings and queens.

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Yes. You're from kings and queens. So I think that your story truth truthfully I mean if you look at our histories and you

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look at what our heritage our families our grandparents they actually been

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through that this is not a story of downtrodden you know like what is that what is that

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movie the one where the the kid is the football guy the big football kid and he goes to this family and they take care

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with Sandra Bulockind side blind side do the blind side I'm sorry I hate that

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movie I just it I know. And then something came out recently that that I think

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something Yeah. There's some kind of like just Yeah. No, I know. But those kind of Yeah. Know that Yeah. sort of like No, my you know like

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uh imposter syndrome, all these things. I don't I don't I know it's And so your

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story is amazing because it's coming from this is my superpower. This is my power. This is my family, my legacy.

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It's not a legacy of downtroddeness. It's a legacy of power. And I want to tell you about it. So that that's that's

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brilliant. And I think one thing one thing that I had to get comfortable with and which I have over the last few years

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obviously is like stepping into my power.

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Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You know like just like being really

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comfortable with that and knowing that I have a way of connecting with people

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like when I would be on air on MSNBC and then after after a virtual hit from

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home like I'd be on Skype and I go like run errands. People in my neighborhood would see me even if I had a mask on, right? Cuz I was like 2020 2021 and

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they'd be like, "Oh, Dr. blocks like I just saw you on air and I'm thinking about getting that vaccine or people

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tell me today they're like I sent my children back to school when you sent your children back to school.

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Yeah. Yeah. Because I trusted you. Yeah. And I realized for the first time for many people especially for many

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black folks that was the first time they saw a black physician one and a black physician on air.

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Yeah. And and you're not and not bringing it from a place of you should do this because or you will die. It's

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more like, hey, this is I'm talking to you real about your health. I'm talking to you about your health. I want you to have the information that

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you need to be informed so you can make decisions for yourself. Like, I'm not being paternalistic, but but I love you.

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I love our community, and I want us to be safe. That's awesome. So, you know, you said the magic word,

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which is superpower. Well, you didn't say it. You said power. Yeah. So, Jordan, you know what time it is.

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It's time for you to tell us. So, on every show, I ask people, "What's your superpower?" Yeah.

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But it's not like I'm on time or, you know, it's not like it's something. It's something that's unique to you.

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Yeah. That you do the best. And when you do it, you don't lose any energy. Like you can do it all day and night.

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So what's your superpower? Okay. I don't know if this is what you mean, but I think my superpower is the ability to be vulnerable

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because I think that allows people me to connect with people and people to connect with me.

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Um and they see that. Um because sometimes when you have that facade up that like, yeah, I'm great. I can do I

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could do anything. But when you share with people, yeah, I've had really hard times. Sometimes I don't always get it right or, you know, this was a struggle

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for me. I think people, they see you as human. They can relate to you and then they want to listen to you more.

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I think so. I think I think um I'm trying to think about whether vulnerability

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is your superpower. Okay. So, so some of my friends say Okay. should some of my friends say that

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my my superpower is that I make everyone feel like they're seen and heard like

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like I think that's to me like again I'm just you know this is our longest

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conversation but in seeing you out there it's not just I mean I think vulnerability is a part of it but I

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think that's to me your ability to connect your ability to make people feel seen and heard at ease with you um and

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and at some level you know you You are I mean you have a story of stairs stepping

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up but you're you're an icon in the industry relatively right like I mean as far as I mean thank you

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I mean none of us are Steph Curry right but I mean within the industry um you

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know if you think okay who's in this space it's your your name comes up 865 times right so how I mean I think that

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you you have the right when people get to that level of not connecting which a

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many people abuse and we've had a lot of people here um at less than 1% who do

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not abuse that power. They like Leenian Tomlinson like Yeah. Like there's like I mean we're we have

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to do the 23 and me cuz Tomlinson and Tomlinson like about the same height the same build.

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His family is Jamaican too. Family. No, his family's not Jamaican. His family's not Jamaican but I mean he's another one like you know um super

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super super connector, right? And you know how many things probably are going on in his life. Um,

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I want to ask other people because I think I think we landed. I think it's the connection. I think your ability to

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connect. Okay. And meaningfully. Yeah. Meaningful. Not not in a superficial way. Yeah. We're not talking about Oh, how's

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the weather? Yeah. Can I say one? I want one thing. Yeah. So, you know, when I was able to, you

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know, just use start using my platform. It was a time when we were basically from home or doing a lot virtually and

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so people would see me on air like people had not like a lot of people had not met me in person. So I had this like

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fear like in 2022 when things started opening up that when people met me in person they would be disappointed.

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Like I I felt this pressure like to live up to what people thought they knew of

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me from my media appearances right or you know virtual talks I was giving.

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Yeah. I remember posting something on Instagram, a video, just being like, I now that things are opening up, I'm

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feeling really anxious about having to live up to what people think I am, who they think I am. And guess what

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happened? People are like, oh my god, you're even better in person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to

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say I know. I know. It was just like I it was just this this fear this this this

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anxiety I had about living up to what people had expected of me because people

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just from they had even met me but just from what they had seen they had I think though I mean that's probably I

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can't tell you how you felt but I think that's probably most cases where people

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I mean I we got an opportunity to interview Malcolm Gladwell and uh you know of course I like he's

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Jamaican descent. Yes. Yes, he's a writer. We both are well, I guess I'm similar to him and we look at what's

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wrong with the world and we want to we want to talk about that. And I met him. I was like, "Dude, you're you're you're even better than I thought

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you'd be." Um because I think I and I think that only happens when you connect, right?

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And I think that when you connect, it's like, "Oh, wow. She's real." I mean, even just us, like in our conversation, we found out we have a Jamaican

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connection, which is I think I have a Jamaican Yeah. I think I have a Jamaican bias cuz

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Jessica Shepard. Mhm. Yes. Jamaican. Yes. Yes. Jamaican. Toronto. Toronto. Toronto. Toronto. Scar bro. Forget your

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people. She's from my She's from my street. Like literally. So we're sitting there. I'm like I think I have a total 100% bias to

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Jamaicans. Yes. I I see, you know, I can sniff a Jamaican out. Yes. Um but yeah. So okay.

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I I want to ask Oh, should we call Should we call? Okay. Yeah. I want to ask somebody else. Um, so the we got to set up here.

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20:44

Hey, dear. Hi. How are you?

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Okay. I have a little surprise for you. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm actually I'm on a podcast

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right now. Oh, and yes. With Dr. from Tomlinson of auity and part of it he wants me to call

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a friend a good friend okay and to ask them he's actually on the

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call we can hear you want to say hello hi how are you this is Dr. Adiri Arie. She's my friend

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from when I was 19 years old. Oh my goodness. Yes. My dear friend. We're actually going to Savannah this weekend

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on a girl. Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, we we won't take uh too much of

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your time. Thank you for answering. She actually I'll just share some private information. We called a lot of people

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and you were the only one who answered. So, we know that uh you definitely love her.

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Of course. Of course. I'm sitting at my desk like my you know I work from home

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so I'm staring at a computer screen and I was like okay yeah I'm gonna pop.

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So thank you for answering. We we have um we on this program we ask people what

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their superpower is and she gave us a superpower but then we don't 100% trust

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people. So we want to call you know her dearest friends and ask what do you

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think her superpower is? Okay. I think her superpower is

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discernment. Like she can look at a situation and she can see clearly right

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to the core of what's going on. And she does that like, you know, with me as her

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friend. She can see right through to who I am, to what's going on for me. and she makes that like her her sort of her her

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goal to really see people where they're at and who they are. You know, it takes a lot of empathy and

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Henry J has that. Wow. What do you think? Thank you. Yes. And she's known me

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forever. That's amazing. Yes. But do you want to tell her what you said yours was?

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Okay. I think I said I said vulnerability, right? I said vulnerability. my ability to be, you

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know, to be vulnerable with people and I think that helps me connect with people.

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Absolutely. No, that that I I can definitely see that too. But I think if

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I look at like it takes a lot like in order to see somebody else, you have to be able to,

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you know, you have to be willing to be vulnerable. So it's like the precursor. I'm seeing that, but I'm also seeing

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another step in it. That's awesome. Yeah. That's amazing. Well, thank you so much.

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Thank you, deary. Can't wait to see you on Friday. I love you. Okay. Love you.

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Bye. Bye. That's awesome. I should have called her first.

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So, you knew her from So, so actually Oh, actually, I know her. I knew her from So, the summer that

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the summer of 97, the summer that my mom passed away, I was actually in a summer research program at NYU School of

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Medicine. So where I ended up later on faculty, but I was in a research program for underrepresented groups and Adiri

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was in that cohort with me. And so I had only like I had known her for

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several weeks before my mom died and the way that she and another friend of mine who I'm still good friends with,

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the way they just like surrounded me with love like they didn't even know me but but but just supported me so much

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that summer. Like I was in her I've been in her wedding. I was in both their weddings. like we've been friends

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forever. So, and I think it was because I met them during that really critical moment in my life. Yeah.

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So, NYU 97. Let's see. So, I'm I'm at Cincinnati

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in 97. Do you know Seavoy? Of course. Okay. Seavoy actually. Seavoy. That Yeah. Um that summer I met

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Seavoy. Yes. Yes. I met it was also he's a twin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. And he was and he was at NYU,

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you know, over the summer. So, so we we actually hung out. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I haven't uh No, I know he's with I know he's on the board. He's on the

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board. He's he's on the board, right? No, he's he's a VP. He's actually VP. Oh, he's VP. Yeah, he used to be on the board.

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Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know you're out there. I've got you on the podcast. Remember

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that, my friend. Um and and I know Seavoy does a lot of other like he does producing. Yeah. He's and all, you know,

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he's bringing worlds together that don't go together. He and I have to connect. We have to connect. That's awesome.

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Yeah. Okay. So, um I had another question that I had for you about that superpower that

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I that I just lost. But let let's let's make sure this No, I make sure that's on.

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25:34

change gears for a little bit and go a little a little dark. I'm trying to take you places you don't want to go. So

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this I'm willing to go anywhere. You are willing to go anywhere. This is not I mean I'm normal. Like I try to

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make people a little uncomfortable, but you're you're you are you're an open book. Um,

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literally. No, no, no, no. But even this, but even the book, like obviously like there wasn't I mean it's a memoir, so I'm not going

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to put like everything in it, but then also I have to have like some boundaries too, you know what I mean? I can't like

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reveal all my all my business. Like I have children like I just you know I have to like protect them too.

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And what's interesting like when I was writing so I mean again Malcolm Gladwell is my hero. I like to look at, you know,

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less than 1% starts with my story of, you know, being a uncharacteristic CEO,

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but then I don't, it's funny because you kind of start and then you kind of lean

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into who you are and your experiences. I literally write one one chapter

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and that chapter is done and then I'm talking about Steph Curry, I'm talking about Nanny, I'm talking about Shel Price, you know, Siri, like I'm going in

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everybody else. And so, you know, we're I'm I'm I finished the book. It's stream of consciousness. I

26:40

write the book in a month and a half like no just, you know, it's just because I had that's

26:46

a long story. I had that book over there, maniacal fanaticism 10 years ago. It's not the best book, but it was my

26:52

first attempt. I kept editing that book like over and over and over again. And I was shopping it, right? I'm shopping it at the time

26:58

and I'm re-editing and re-editing and then I realized like I'm just writing a new book. It's not re-editing

27:05

like I had grown so much as a writer in the story. So, I had to actually kill I

27:10

had to cut it off. And so, I cut it off. And even though I was I have a pride

27:15

problem. I self-published it. I didn't want to cuz I felt like that was just kiss of death.

27:21

But when I did that, the new one just flowed. Like it was just like all been pent up. But anyway.

27:26

Yeah. Cuz you have to get that energy out. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, I think that's, uh, went off on a tangent here,

27:34

but I think that the idea, um, to be revealing and vulnerable. So, I tell the story about a coach I had

27:41

that says he has less than 1% chance. And I stop there and I go to all these things in the world where people

27:47

underestimate people. They put them in boxes. They make them, you know, into things before they, you know, they pick

27:53

their winners and losers for the race run. It's kind of something I always say, but it's so I take it to the publisher.

27:59

They're like, "Hey, we love it." They're like, "Who ghost wrote it for you?" Like, "No, I'm a writer. Stop. I'm not a CEO." You know, whatever.

28:05

Right. And they're like, "You need to write more stories about yourself." And I'm like, "Oh my gosh."

28:10

Yeah. Cuz right cuz right that's that's the that's the connecting. So then I I have to So I write a couple

28:15

other chapters. One I write the the seizure chapter which my you know my son that was terrible. like I can I read it

28:22

now and I'm just like literally balling my eyes out and then I write the chapter at the end which is sort of bringing it all

28:27

together. But I say all that to say you know the ability to write all about

28:33

yourself in a way that's not arrogant in this way that's not I'm amazing. Uh you

28:40

did you did it brilliantly. Thank you. Thank you. But I want to go dark. Yeah. I want to go dark. Yeah. Let's see cuz that's where we started

28:45

vulnerability. Dark. You can go. I'm I'm going dark. So, is there anybody

28:51

we talked about people like, "Hey, you you helped me get to where I am. Thank you so much. You know, your friends, oh,

28:58

but we love you. We're going to hang out. You know, we believe in you. Your agent, your publicist,

29:04

but what about people who doubted you? What about people that were like, "Dr.

29:11

Blackstock, you are not going to make it." Or even before you're Dr. Blackstock or somebody who's like, "And

29:16

I I know you're a wonderful I know. I know. Loving amazing positive person. I know. Okay. So, okay. So, I will say

29:21

overall I've been super lucky that like I've just been and I think this is just a lot of luck luck and Yeah. Go

29:29

ahead. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah. So, so yeah, we were talking about going dark. So, is and you were and and

29:34

I saw because I'm like you're an attending like if you're going to give me feedback, you know, like say it with

29:40

your chest and put your name on it. Yes. I totally agree. They said Uch isn't as great as she thinks she as she

29:47

thinks she is. That is but see that that's the kind of classic. Yeah. And I'm like wait a minute. What

29:52

do I do with that? Yeah. Yeah. How do I how do I show you that I'm don't think positively about myself?

29:57

Yeah. But also like Yeah. And how was that constructive? Like I could not believe I could not believe that someone

30:04

who was supervising me or training me that that's what that that's the only thing they wrote. They didn't say anything

30:09

else. Wow. And so I remember even though the rest were glowing, I remember that one has always stuck with me because I was

30:16

just I was an intern. I actually was very anxious about coming to going to work. I couldn't sleep before my shifts,

30:23

you know, in the ER. Like, you know, I I took it really seriously. I would have like this little little bag with me with

30:28

all my little books in your in your pilot. In your palm pile. Yeah, exactly. like you know like I

30:35

wasn't you know the fact that someone saw that and then thought but I think it's prepped maybe with what they knew of me which I was coming from you know

30:41

Harvard undergrad Harvard medical school but also I was at Kings County Hospital which is my the public hospital in my

30:46

neighborhood that my mom used to work at like so it wasn't I I wanted to go there like that was my that was the first my first rank choice for m to match there

30:54

like I wanted to be there I wanted to to take care of my community so the fact that this attending was like she's not

30:59

as good as she thinks she is. Yeah. So that so that has stayed that has that that always has stayed

31:04

Yes. with me. Yeah. Um because I'm like first of all, who said that? I still don't know who said that. And

31:11

then I'm like, where were they coming from? Like what what was their mindset where they felt like they could put that

31:16

in my evaluation? Well, I mean, you know, the mindset, they had you in a box, right? So the you didn't match the box.

31:22

They they built this they built this Dr. Blackstock that was not who you really were.

31:27

And it's funny you said that. So, in residency, I I haven't this this is a story that I uh you know, I haven't told

31:34

anywhere really. Oh, really? Oh, first time. First time. First time. I'm honored. I don't know if I should

31:41

maybe we edit this out. So, um don't edit it out. So, I'm I'm in residency and you know,

31:47

and I and I we talked, you know, sort of pre-show like I've struggled with anger

31:52

my whole life. like my my base energy, the energy where I get the most the the

31:58

the mood that I get the most energy from is anger. So when I want to do something amazing,

32:03

Yeah. is usually because I got angry about something else, right?

‍

32:08

so I'm dealing with that, but I'm I I'm getting a residency and I've I've learned I'm learning I'm getting

32:14

I've got pretty good EQ, but I'm learning how to edit how I respond to what I witness.

32:20

So, I go in for, you know, the evaluation, the magic evaluation, and he's like, he's like, "Well, we don't we

32:26

don't know. We don't know about you. We don't I'm like, "You don't know about me." And I said, "Well," I said, "You

32:31

need to get better at whatever." And I was like, "Okay, fine." He says, "Well, you your attitude is just not good." And

32:38

I'm like, "Wait a second. my attitude like and I and I don't know how your

32:43

residency life was but every time I would go to a rotation like like they

32:48

you know different departments would give out awards like they'd give them to me like everybody is like you know cuz I'm Yeah

32:54

I'm up early I'm there late I'm I'm I'm grinding right it's Jamaican you know I'm ready to go

33:01

so he says um he says you act like you're from the streets and I'm like

33:06

wait like the streets of Toronto bro I'm I'm like, "Come on, man." Like, really?

33:11

Like, from the streets. Like, which streets are you talking about? Like, I'm from a different country,

33:16

you know? Um, and at the time, you know, I mean, not that it matters, but at the time, I mean, we I mean, my parents, we

33:21

were never rich, but we I mean, I never I was never hungry, like, you know what I mean?

33:26

Um, and so I remember going I did an away rotation with with with a friend

33:32

who graduated from the program a year before. I went away to North Carolina and and this is kind of deep. So, this

33:39

is the part that I'm embarrassed about a little bit. So, I'm in North Carolina and I'm just like I'm not shaving. I'm

33:48

like total and he's a great friend cuz I was supposed to do a whole lot of shifts

33:53

and I didn't do them. Like I was just like I'm struggling cuz I'm like I'm about to get kicked out of residency. Like what's

33:58

going on? And the advice that I got was, you need

34:04

to go to this rotation and think about your future and think about what you

34:10

need to do. And what he told me I needed to do was go to a psychiatrist. Wait, go to a psychiatrist.

34:15

Psychiatrist. My my assistant residency program director said that. So I'm like to deal with me being from

34:21

the streets. So I'm like, "Okay, what do I do? What do I do?" So, I go to my my boy and he's

34:26

like he's like he's like, "Okay, just come out here two weeks, do this rotation, think about it, and go back."

34:32

And I'm and at one point I'm like, "I'm just going to go see a psychiatrist. I'm just going to do it cuz I want to finish like my whole life. I want to go to

34:38

medical school." So, he said, "So, all of a sudden, this is the embarrassing part. All of a

34:44

sudden, this uh it's it's like 3:00 in the morning. 4 in the morning and

34:50

someone starts talking to me and I swear like you know where were you? You were

34:56

I'm in I'm in North Carolina in bed. In bed. Oh. And someone starts talking to me and I'm

35:01

looking around. I'm like, you know, we're scientists. I mean, I'm I believe Yeah. Yeah.

35:06

I'm a scientist like, you know. Yeah. And uh

35:11

he's like it's a male voice and he says everything's going to be okay.

35:17

And I'm like okay, you know, you know, am I am I sleeping? Well, all of a sudden I just like

35:24

this calm came over me. I drive back to like straight like

35:29

straight to the office. We had scheduled a meeting and I go in the office. I'm like he's go so what are you going to do? I

35:36

said I'm not going to do anything. I said, 'I'm going to graduate. I'm going to go be an amazing doctor and y'all

35:42

going to stop this foolishness. And he looked at me. He said, 'What make what makes you think that you can do

35:49

that? And I said, well, I think God told me that that Yeah. that this is the right thing to do. And

35:55

sure enough, he didn't mess with me. I graduated. I did not go to the final picture, you know, the Yeah.

36:01

But anyway, uh yeah, that's the first time giving me goosebumps. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough, right? stuff cuz we've all had

36:07

some kind of but I'll never forget I'll never forget and I'll say his name Dr. Ferris, I'll

36:12

never forget his name. Um, and I'll, you know, and that that actually that

36:18

feeling, which is probably not healthy, but that feeling, that moment, I'll

36:23

never ever forget it. And like when I'm when I'm ready to do something amazing. Yeah. I always go back to that feeling.

36:30

Yeah. No, I know. I know. Yeah. That's Yeah. Yeah.

36:35

I know. I just like, wait a second, whose podcast is this? No, no, no. I'm just like, that's that's

36:41

really heavy. That's so heavy. And and I want to say like I know for me like

36:47

I felt like I I couldn't show my anger. Yeah. Like because I was in these spaces where

36:55

like I didn't want to be like the angry black woman. So people never saw that. So but that's but that was inside.

37:03

That's heavy though, like right to to carry the weight to carry that to carry that to carry that. Um, so I think for me a lot of

37:10

times like in my writing like I I get out what I want through my social media

37:16

like that's why like on on Twitter like early 2020s like I had like I had like almost 140k followers cuz I literally

37:22

just just put like I'm thinking about this like I was just like kind of vent like that was my venting. But I think it's just so important for us to like

37:29

be able to like I you know I mean yeah if we feel angry feel angry and I know you're saying sometimes your anger is

37:35

like another level but we have a lot to be angry about. Yeah. Yeah. We we have a lot to be angry about. Then

37:40

you have people who are trying to like sabotage you, undermine you and they don't believe in you. Like I mean when I

37:48

was in academic medicine and I felt like I was under a microscope but they were looking at my social media. They were

37:53

like oh she started her own consulting firm. How do we know if this this firm's values align with our institutions? I

38:00

was like, you you asking that question, I should ask you. Right. Right. Right. Because because the way that you all are

38:06

operating in here, the way that you're treating black faculty and students and trainees. Yeah.

38:11

Like that is in line with my values. Yes. Yes. And and one thing I had to

38:16

learn and this is what I always say and I always try to remind um our our

38:22

students that like you are the gift for all of these institutions and

38:27

organizations that we are part of and that we move into they are so lucky to have us. Yeah.

38:32

Like Matui is so lucky to have you. Yeah. Well, because No, no, no. Because of the No, because of like

38:39

not just our professional experience, but our lived experience. Just the perspective that we come in with. The fact that we can see things from all

38:45

different angles, like that is that is a gift. Yeah. I I mean, I I had to lean into

38:53

I I think, you know, we talked a little bit. I I spent the first four years of I've been in the job nine years now. The

39:00

first four years I was struggling to be what others thought

39:06

not just the the the CEO of of a physician group but also CEO within

39:11

healthcare and I struggled with that and in the last four or five years like to yourself point I was like at some level it's not you know it's

39:18

like my daughter and I talk about this all the time it's not what you bring to the table sometimes you're the table sometimes you're the table

39:24

and so but it took me a while I think and to your point um you you I think here just in in taking

39:31

it full circle healthcare you know leadership really leadership development

39:37

um the job that we're doing or not doing to advance not just I mean all

39:42

physicians I think at this point in time our leadership development for physicians is at an all-time low right because

39:48

we we're not the generation is different and the people who are teaching that generation

39:54

right struggle with.

‍

39:54

do you think healthcare is broken you think just I just taken it all the way

40:00

to do you think healthcare right now in America is yes I mean and what but what aspect what

40:06

aspect no I think well I mean obvious obviously I think about like the patient experience right the patient experience like folks

40:13

just having to navigate the system um you know access um just followup just

40:20

just being able to understand what's happening and and and just their interactions with the healthare system

40:25

one but then I also think the clinician well-being part is huge Yeah, I think it's another huge part because

40:30

it's like they're like true true and unrelated, right? Like the experiences that patients have are based on how the

40:36

clinicians are supported, right? And how the systems are working to support them, right? Like I like I feel like

40:41

you know this idea of burnout, it's not a personal thing. It's a systemic thing. And I feel like you know so many of my

40:48

friends that are still like practicing, they are like, "Help me get out."

40:53

Yeah. Yeah. They're like, "Help me get out." And I feel like the pandemic definitely was

41:00

that like huge insult on a system that was already struggling, you know, and now we have patients who

41:06

are sicker coming in, right? We have we have clinicians that are burning out. And I think the whole leadership part is

41:12

that we also are not cultivating physician leaders. Yeah. Right. Like I think

41:18

um we could do so much better in in that way for physicians to have voices about policy. like I want to see more

41:25

physicians on the hill just talking about not what physician necessarily even just physician groups need but what our communities need because that's like

41:32

that's related and most of the times they're really focused when you do get on the hill or you do go to talk to people it's really

41:38

about reimbursement most of the time it's like 90% of the time oh you know reimbursement and they at some

41:44

level that that gets old. Yeah. So you have magic wand and you get to fix one thing in healthcare. Magic

41:52

wand what what would that be to unbreak it? Okay. So I think one thing is like the

41:59

administrative inefficiency of our healthare system bureaucracy. Yeah. It is ridiculous and

42:05

it's costly. Yeah. Yeah. Like I mean it's the re it's one of the main reasons why we are an

42:11

outlier compared to other high income countries. like it is ridiculous. There are too many middle middlemen. Um we we

42:18

really need to streamline things and it's not actually it's in in the patients best interest. Yeah. And I think this I mean I I I get

42:27

nauseated talking about AI all the time because every conference you go to like it's they double down on AI and from

42:33

people that don't even use it, right? They're just experts at it. But I do think that this AI has an opportunity

42:40

now to let physicians be more human and more connecting because a lot of these transactional things will hopefully go

42:46

away. No, I I agree and but it was interesting I've been seeing a few articles about how patients are

42:54

using AI more and appreciating the interaction between them and AI versus them and the

43:01

clinician because you know AI is so you know a lot of these like chatbt is so agreeable. So it's like it like affirms

43:06

you, right? Makes you feel good, you know, and I'm just like we are in the Twilight Zone. No, but but I do think um

43:14

you know AI obviously is here, it's inevitable, but we have to use it with intentionality. Yeah. And I do think

43:20

that the piece about like the um the administrative efficiency about like you know the charting and all that like if

43:26

we can just direct you know clinicians to be able to spend more time focused on the patient and and utilize AI in that way then we could

43:33

actually really It actually could be a good thing. Yeah.

‍

43:45

So, um, so 10 years from now.

43:41

Yes. So, you you're you're you're killing you're everywhere, right? You're going to keep being everywhere, right?

43:48

Which is really interesting because I thought I was everywhere and every year I'm everywhere's a new every year. Every

43:56

so I'm like, "Ouch." So, I saw myself this year, u anything is possible from for from here on. Like, um, so I was out

44:02

last night. My so my general counsel for advancing health equity and my personal lawyer, she lives here in in Dallas. So

44:09

this worked out. I guess we went out to dinner last night cuz I hadn't seen her in actually several years. We we talked virtually. We text all the time.

44:15

Um wait, hold on. It was my train of thought. Hold on. What was I going to say? What was I going to say? What were we talking about?

44:20

We were talking about um we were talking about healthcare and you were talking about um

44:26

Oh, she What did she say? Darn. Okay. And

44:31

any Oh, she asked me. Uch um what's been like your favorite the your favorite

44:36

talk that you've given and I was like literally I've given so many I've given so many talks over the last few years but being invited to United Nations to

44:43

speak on the international day against um you know racial discrimination last March of last year was just amazing

44:50

because it's like to be able to in front of the general assembly to be able to talk about the work that I'm doing around health

44:56

equity and how it's applicable go globally um in such a forum Um, I was

45:03

just that's amazing blown away and and and the Office for Human Rights, they invited me and they were like, "Dr. Black Sec,

45:09

we've been fans of yours and we would love for you to come back." And I'm like, um, yeah, this I thought this was a one

45:15

time. Yeah. Whenever you need me, you know? So, it's just like like thinking thinking really about like what what is

45:21

limit like being limitless in terms of what is possible. And so, that's why like I wrote my manifestations for 2026

45:27

the other day. And the manifestations are is just to embrace whatever comes to me and not to put limits on what can

45:34

happen because literally every year, every year something crazy.

45:39

Yes. Yes. Yes. Every year something crazy or every time I check my inbox something else. Um

45:46

and so I don't know why people have chosen me as like someone said you're

45:52

the Beyonce of Health Equity. Yeah. And I'm like okay thank you. But I don't know why. So, I've been

45:58

Yeah. And I think that I think the thing though is that that's part of the if there is if there

46:04

is some kind of syndrome thing, it's that question. It's not that you don't

46:11

feel like you belong, right? Cuz you belong. Clearly, you go there and you're like, I'm going to kill it. Yes. Yes. But I think it's asking the question

46:18

why. I mean, and I, you know, you'll ask that I'll ask that a lot. You know, if I'm in a particular situation, why me?

46:25

or you know, but I think there's a reason and there's a reason. People see it in you. I mean, you know, uh the the

46:31

board that selected me for this job, I didn't want it. I know. You told me that. I refused it like three times. I was

46:37

like, "No, no, no. Like, please, like, I'm good. I was a regional director. I just want to coach. I just want to coach basketball, coach my kids."

46:43

Yes. You know, just do the do do that. And they obviously or maybe they just got

46:49

lucky, but they obviously saw where I'm at now, which is very different than where I was then.

46:55

Yes. And um and so that's, you know, I think that's that's sobering though. It's a sobering thing.

47:00

Yeah. And I think also sometimes you're so just like you're deep in the day-to-day just kind of like living your life and people are able to actually

47:07

look at you and see what is possible. That's and and see what is possible in

47:12

areas that you don't necessarily look at yourself. Yes. You know, you know what I mean? Like a

47:17

lot of times like, you know, I want to go through all of it, but even just in just where we are

47:23

for physician, you know, we talked a little bit about it for physician groups and and

47:29

right in America like Yeah. You know, I mean, we grew so much last year and I never sell like everybody's

47:35

like like how are you growing? I'm like, I don't know. I just go and talk to people and tell them what I feel about the

47:41

world and how I want to impact it. Like what we do in the foundation. um and stuff like that. I I do want to ask

47:47

you so so but you didn't answer my question which was we manifested 2026 but I'm I want to go out to like 2035

47:54

like 10 years where where would you be? I know you're open to everything, which is cool, but

48:01

where where would you look back in 2035 and say, "Yes,

48:07

yes, I'm here." Cuz at that point, you'll be 38.

48:12

Right. 58. 58. Yeah. Actually, can I just tell you every year

48:17

I'm like, "This is like best year ever. Best year ever. Best year ever. Best year ever." I'm like welcoming it.

48:24

I'm like 50, let's go. 50 like let's let's do this. thing I don't like about that is I do not like people knowing my

48:30

birthday because I don't like I don't like the fake love. I don't like the fake love. Like I don't

48:35

want you call like like I mean my my boy if you're my boy all my friends my boys

48:41

out there do not call me on my birthday and say happy birthday because it's like like the day before my birthday might be

48:48

the day you needed to call me and tell me man you're the best ever or the day after. Okay. So, you're just taking that

48:53

day and you're giving me like I want that every day if you want to call me. Right. Okay. I get that. But but I'm

48:59

like that day is so special. I feel cuz my mom made always made a big deal about our birthdays. Like it was a huge So, I

49:04

feel like it's like it's a celebration like this is and the hand the hand say

49:10

like this is the day that you like we we gifted you to the world like this lucky world. Uh okay. Gosh 10 years.

49:17

Yeah. 10 years. 10 years like let I mean you you're you are whether and I think that you understand it now we're what

49:24

we're 5 years out from the pandemic right so this is not a this is not a blip right we've seen lots of people

49:29

come and go lots of companies come and go like you're on a trajectory and you're

49:35

doing more amazing things so 10 years from now where would you look back and say I'm here now and I'm satisfied with what

49:43

I've done over the last 10 such a hard question um you Okay, take time. I'm going to tell

49:49

you mine. Yeah, tell me. I'll tell you mine and then you can you can kind of process. So, for me, 10 years from now,

49:54

I want to look back and I want to be uh I want to be as profound a writer

50:02

as Malcolm Gladwell is. Not necessarily from book sales. Yeah. But as far as like I want people to

50:08

thought leadership like I Yeah. I want people to take this less than 1% story and say, "Hey, you know what? We're not going to build boxes for people anymore. We're gonna, you know,

50:15

my next um actually I want to jump to that as another thing, but I want to talk to you about my next project.

50:20

Okay. Because I think you it'd be interesting. I want to get because you and your sister uh it's a it's a twin thing.

50:26

Okay. But um so yeah, so I want to be I want to be at that point whether I'm doing this or not in healthcare. I'm be at the

50:33

point where people are like, "Okay, moo like you you're you're a legit writer. You're not just a CEO who

50:39

writes, you're a writer who happened to be CEO or maybe I'm not a CEO at that particular time." Yeah, I think. Okay.

50:44

So, okay. So, this is going to be a little bit about 2026 because I just want to tell you like this year

50:50

Yeah. What I realized is that Okay, I did say like the possibilities are endless, but

50:57

I want my hand in a lot of different buckets. Okay. So, like even so even legacy like I am

51:04

I'm done with legacy. I told my editor like I'm not pushing this book out anymore. Yeah.

51:09

But if there is I'm going to let the message of the book just get out naturally.

51:14

Yeah. But I would love like to see like a film on it.

51:20

I would love to see a documentary, some piece of it. You know, I met I met Avery Duivere a few weeks ago

51:26

and at the Ford Foundation and I I gave her a copy of my book and she's like, "Girl, I already follow you."

51:31

Nice. So, so I'm just saying like, you know, I'm just putting that out there. So, I would love just to have

51:37

these conversations that I had in the book show up in other spaces. And I think also for me, what I would love is

51:43

just to to have these conversations with folks outside of the healthcare space because so much we know what happens

51:49

regarding health is not just within healthcare. So, I want to be that um leazison kind of or that communicator

51:55

between connector. The connector back to the Yes. Exactly. Exactly. between what

52:00

we're doing like I got invited like that Ford foundation event I was telling you about it was it was actually a arts and

52:06

justice forum but they wanted to bring in health justice so I was like the only black

52:12

health professional health professional there that's awesome but like um Yara Shahiti was there a

52:17

diver was there you know Cherylyn Eiffel was there right but I was able to like be the physician voice or the health the

52:24

healthcare voice to talk about how it's connected to all of these other spaces that's amazing so that's so That's what I want to

52:30

continue. So, you want to take that and accelerate. Yes. Yeah. And and hopefully I will and also so I've finished my second book

52:38

proposal. Yeah. I'm hoping by the top of next year I have my second book deal, but I also I

52:43

also already know I want to do a third book. Nice. And the third book I want it to be about stepping into your power.

52:49

That's awesome. Yeah. So, so I see like I I want to continue like getting my my voice out there. Um because I feel like so many

52:56

people like they're craving for these kind of these stories because they want they feel seen,

53:02

you know, in in these story they feel validated and then also for a broader audience to hear other perspectives. So

53:07

that's amazing. Yeah. So I just actually for 2026 I have like all of these buckets I want to be in and I want all

53:13

those buckets to just continue to expand over the next 10 years. Okay. Well, I mean that could be 10

53:19

years but apparently 10 years Jordan is going to happen in one year.

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53:20

So, um, thinking

53:28

about writing, it's funny. We're we're wired similarly that way. I have like eight books written in my mind.

53:34

Yes. In your head. Yeah. Um, and then sort of backtrack to the one I have to write, you know, and then the article I have to write so I can get

53:40

this. So, I I finished the first chapter. I actually went on a rant, which is my

53:45

longest first chapter ever. It's like it's like 2500 words, which for a first chapter for me. I like short chapters,

53:50

like digestible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um but it's called almost and it's the other side of rip

53:56

other side of winning. So how small differences change the course of lives, change

54:01

directions and and it's like amazing. So how many different situations where

54:08

somebody makes a right turn and they're, you know, like Wes Moore talks about that you're in this you're you're a

54:14

loser quote unquote and somebody makes a little bit of a right turn and you're the most amazing thing ever. But one of

54:19

the things I'm one of the chapters I'm going to use twin twin studies and so I'm interested

54:25

to find out like you know how are you similar how are you

54:31

different and what do you attribute that to? Yeah. So it's interesting. I I think like you know this nature versus nurture

54:37

even with twins right and I think that for a very long time like our mother was

54:45

I told you she was a such a loving affectionate woman but also was like said to us starting from when we were

54:51

little you two just have each other like you better depend on each other go everywhere together do everything

54:57

together right and so we kind of like were always together up until end of medical school And and so in a way it

55:03

was good because we were able to support each other but also I think it sometimes didn't allow us to like develop our own personalities and now I see it more I

55:10

see more now as like in our 40s that we actually are really different like she like you know we have different sense of

55:16

like world view I mean with the same values but but just like our perspective on how we handle things is is really

55:23

very different. So I feel like part of that is just how we're wired genetically

55:28

you know so it's it's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting like I'm I mean I'm doing all this research for the first time and it's sort of you have IQ

55:36

differences which Yeah. Right. So, yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, actually both my sister and I I want to say that when

55:42

my mother um had us assessed at four at four years old, we both were genius level although my

55:48

sister was several points ahead of me. Wow. And then my mother said, "I didn't want to get you retested because I was

55:53

worried that the score would go down." Like, okay, thanks, Mom. Yeah.

55:59

Yeah. I mean that it's fascinating. It's fascinating. Well, I think it's just fascinating and in that in that chapter

56:05

what I want to point out I think is that um you know when you genetically when you

56:10

genetically you know you have your uh double blind randomized genetically the same

56:16

that small little incences you know whether you know one person may I don't know

56:22

um have a cold you know that day when you learn biochemistry and the other person didn't

56:28

and that small difference could be the different that could it butterfly effect into something different. So,

56:33

yeah, it's interesting. Also, my sister and I like we've gone through a lot of life changes together like at the same time. Like we we divorced around the

56:40

same time. We we we we got out of our like traditional jobs and started our consulting firms at the same time.

56:46

Wow. I know. I know. That's Well, I guess there's two more twins in the study.

56:52

That is amazing. I mean, not amazing, but it's just that parallel Yeah. Oh, yeah. is is uncanny.

56:58

Yeah. I mean, we had our kids around the same time.

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57:00

one thing that I've learned over the last few years like you

57:09

know alignment is really huge for me. Um it was something that like I think because I had been on that trajectory of

57:15

like you know being a physician like you kind of just start doing like you know what you're supposed to be doing like you go to medical school you do

57:20

residency fellowship I kind of like wasn't like checking in with myself being like uch like is what you're doing aligned with like

57:27

what's important to you? Yeah. Um, like I was just kind of doing I was like kind of like just kind of

57:32

auto like doing what I thought I was supposed to do on this on this track. And I think what the thing that I

57:37

learned from this and hopefully others do learn too is that at no point in time am I hearing you make decisions based on

57:44

the new title or the new or how much something is like you're actually maybe even going against that. you're actually

57:51

you're actually and your life now is so much more, you know, sort of fruitful

57:56

because you weren't focused on just the money and the title, which I think so many people are like, I want to get that promotion and they just don't live where

58:03

they're at. Yeah. The question I ask myself now is what is good for Uch? Yeah. Yeah. What is good for Uch? Um and that alignment piece, um

58:10

people ask me, they're like, "Okay, how did you get the book deal?" And how I got the book deal was that, you know,

58:16

um, summer of 2020, I was on um, a local NPR station and I was talking about

58:23

racial disparities and COVID and my literary agent heard me and she sent me

58:30

a cold email and said, you know, I've been following you on social media. I'm at my mom's visiting her. I just heard you on the Brian Lar show and I think

58:38

you have a story to tell and you're the only person to tell that story. Do you want to talk? That is amazing.

58:44

Like and so and what I say from that is just that it's really important that you're doing what fulfills you. The

58:50

people who see will need will see, right? Yes. Like Yes. You know, you just keep do keep doing

58:56

what fulfills you, what gives you purpose. Yeah. And and and all that other goodness, all that other abundance will just fall in

59:03

line. Wow. I was going to ask you for something you wanted to leave people with, but I think you just did.

59:09

I think you just did. That was amazing. Um, you've you've you've helped me today. So, I got to make sure that I'm

59:15

doing what I'm supposed to do and not what I have to do. Yeah. Um, where do people find you? Where do people like

59:21

they want to they're like, "Okay, I heard this. I want to go find her." What's the best place? Okay. So, you can go to my website, ujblackstock.com.

59:27

You can go to l I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram. I'm still on Twitter x. I'm

59:33

on blue sky. I'm on threads. I am everywhere. And don't do what I did. Do not DM U 78

59:43

times. No, I feel so bad. No, cuz I can I tell you when DM I get so overwhelmed to DM. Oh, no. I know what you did.

59:49

That that that I like I I lose track of them. But listen, so I'm going tell everybody.

59:56

So what happened? This is what had happened was this is what happened. So I'm DMing and Jordan, I think you heard this. So, I'm

1:00:02

D. My book's coming out and we I DM you have responded a few times and I'm

1:00:07

trying to send you a signed copy of the book, right? And you're just busy. You're just busy. I know. Yeah. So, I keep I keep DM I keep DMing

1:00:14

and then I I NH NHS cuz like I'm just like I'm very very

1:00:22

um informal like you know what I mean? Like that's what I love about you. Yeah. like I'm I'm rolling up on you.

1:00:28

Like I don't know you. I'm just rolling up on you like hey. And you and I remember you were like okay who the heck is this dude?

1:00:33

No. And then and then I was like oh it took a while for

1:00:39

I remember somebody at the thing was like did you tell her who you were? I was like of course I didn't. I'm just

1:00:45

rolled up like you know that's like my girl like I'm rolling up on her you know. Um but anyway uh yeah but don't

1:00:52

don't don't don't don't just go crazy and DM her like I did. But I I appreciate you coming. I know you're busy. I know you're, you know, at the UN

1:00:59

and you're at everything. You didn't have to come here today and that that's that means a lot to me. Uh just cuz, you

1:01:05

know, I want to be able to I mean to me in my mind, you're less than 1enter. You're someone who, you know, obviously

1:01:12

from your stories, no one thought you would be where you are now. And if there's somebody out there who's at the

1:01:17

beginning of their journey, hopefully when they listen to this, they're like, "Hey, I can do it, too." And so that's, you know, absolutely I've

1:01:23

been, we've been blessed to have a lot of amazing people on here, but the consistent theme is like

1:01:28

you're somebody who's that somebody who's bringing something to the world that nobody else could and and we

1:01:34

appreciate you. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. This is a lot of fun. I think it's one of my most fun podcasts.

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