How Forensic Pathologist Dr. Roger Mitchell is Disrupting the Criminal Justice System

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My father got caught up in the in the 80s, man. Yeah.

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That crack epidemic, that was real. Yeah.

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For a lot of families, you know, and and where I'm from and I I grew up in the suburbs, you know. I grew up in the

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suburbs, you know. My dad, he worked hard, my mother worked hard. Come from a good family. And that crack epidemic stole people.

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It stole people to the addiction and it stole people to to the incarceration.

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And my my dad was one of the people that got stolen um to the addiction.

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And so the opportunity [music] as a young man in my 20s [music] to be

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able to go get him from underneath the boardwalk and bring him into my home and make sure that he got into the right treatment.

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um was a blessing.

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Yeah, because it made room for all my gifts.

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Double show you.

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I got goosebumps. You are less than one [music] person.

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Your path is your path. Stay committed.

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Stay focused. Be disagreeable, optimistic, and relentless. the less than one.

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Welcome everybody. Less than 1%. Thank you for watching. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for digesting all things underrated, all things uh you

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know, I was I was telling somebody the other day that my goal in life is to make sure that everybody that feels like they haven't achieved what they need to achieve watches this show, reads my book, digests everything uh that that we do here at less than 1%.

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Today I have the pleasure, the honor, and listen, to get this person here was like crazy because he literally the plane

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landed. He just rolled into the studio and he's going to roll out of the studio and get back on the plane. So, I I appreciate him. Um, but welcome to

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Lesson 1% Roger Mitchell, my man, my brother, my friend, my compadre, my my actually we're business partners, every every aspect.

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We haven't even scratched the surface on the things that we're going to do. I already know. Already know. That's it, man.

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Yeah. But thank you for coming, man. I know. I know you're busy. No. But the reason you're busy. Yeah.

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Is cuz you're you are the president of the NMA. Yeah. The National Medical Association.

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126th president. Oldest and largest group of black docs in the country. 1895. Wow. When they wouldn't let us in.

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So that's crazy. Like I mean just you know you probably are out all the time

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advocating for a group that a lot of people know of and some people don't know of right. I mean it's almost like that's that's a long time.

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Yeah. Well well mo you know it's not even advocating for that group.

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Right. We've been advocating for access to health care for black and brown and the disenfranchised and the disinherited since 1895.

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Wow. So whether people know it or not, you know, we were advocating for women to have act to become physicians when

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medical schools wouldn't let women become physicians. Um so we we've been doing it for a long time. I mean, Daniel Hell Williams is one of our founders. He

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was the first open heart surgeon um in this country, black man. Um Robert F.

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Boyd uh out of out of Tennessee. Uh Charles Drew was a member. Montigue Cobb, the list goes on and on. So

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wow. So whether they if there's a black prominent physician in history or today,

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uh the likes of it, including yourself, the likes of it, um they're they're they're members of the National Medical Association.

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So tell us a little bit how, you know, sort of the the the uh everybody Well, a lot of people see Roger Mitchell now

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and they look at R and I'm like, "Oh, Roger Mitchell, you know, Roger, [crying] look at him. Look at him up there." You know, you know, um my brother, but you But tell us a little bit about

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that journey because you know medical school you decided to go to pathology like I like dude pathology was I was trip I mean

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that's that's not a specialty that just all of a sudden people think pathology how did how did that journey go?

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Well I I was um I went to undergrad at at Howard University the Mecca. Um

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by the way you know they always leave me out. I did not go to Howard. So, um, you know, it's it's almost like I'm not in the club.

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No. Well, there's a lot of us. There's a lot of us, right? There's a lot of y'all. There's a lot of us.

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So, I went to Howard. Um, and I knew I was I was premed. Um, but I didn't want to become a doctor towards the end. I was tired.

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I had worked multiple jobs. Yeah. I was doing a research project, HIV and AIDS research. We were taking DNA. We're doing recominant DNA technology. taking

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DNA, putting in bacteria, and seeing whether or not we could infiltrate white cells. Right. Right.

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With bacteria that had DNA that could cure HIV. We were doing that research groundbreaking 1995.

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Um, and the same time the OJ Simpson trial was happening. Wow.

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And I was listening to the OJ DNA is just blowing up at that point.

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So DNA is coming out right there. You got it right on the point. And so forensics was talking about DNA and I was doing DNA work. And so I made this

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decision. I said, "Man, what if I become a forensic scientist?" So I became the first black man in FBI laboratories um in in 97 uh coming out of undergrad.

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And and and and I bring this up because there were three positions for 250 applicants. And I did the math. Not not quite less than 1%.

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Pretty close. 1.2%.

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three positions, but if you take the one out of the 250, then I'm less than one I'm less than 1%.

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I became a forensic biologist. Um, got exposed to the medical examiner and forensic medicine, forensic pathology,

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and I left the FBI to study violence as a public health issue as a forensic pathologist. That's what I went to med school to become, a forensic

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pathologist. So, that's that was the that's the origin story of forensic pathology.

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But that's not the origin story. That's one of the stories. We'll get to the origin story in a minute, but that's one of the stories.

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But I mean, I think, you know, I'm confessing something here to everybody. So, when I'm in a hotel, and I'm in a hotel

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a lot, I know you're in hotels a lot. We are all over the place. All over it.

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But the only thing I watch in the hotel is Forensic Files. Okay. That's the only thing. There you go.

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Like, Right. Like, you know, it doesn't matter what's on. I'm not watching the game. I'm falling asleep to Forensic Files. Yeah.

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And that's what you do. That's what I do on a regular basis. And even today, I've I've been the uh I ran all death investigations for Harris County,

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Houston, Texas. We did 16,000 death calls a year, 500 homicides a year. I did that for four years. I was the youngest chief medical examiner. That's

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amazing. Uh in 2011, so that a while ago when I was the youngest, that was in Jersey. I was the chief medical examiner. And then for seven years, I was the chief me in in DC from 14 to 21.

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So uh and right now I do consulting and a lot of forensic pathology work um across the country across the globe.

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But specifically you you kind of and I think this is tied in watching your journey medical school obviously residency making the decision now you're

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being the Emmy lots of different places culminating in for some people culminating in the NMA but you have been

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kind of doing that anime work when even before you're the president. I mean we have your book there you know uh on the

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stand but you always have been like hey what are we really doing should can we be disruptive first actually let me

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start can we be honest with ourselves and then once we're honest can we be disagreeable be optimistic and be relentless you know all the things I

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talk about to try to disrupt a system that maybe you know and I and I'll just put it out there listen people don't believe some

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people don't believe that you know you commit a crime you should be treated any old way, right? That's that's the mindset.

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Yeah. For for many of us.

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And you you you you want to flip that mindset. You think that, hey, yes, they committed a crime. Yes, they should be locked up. That's that's what happens,

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right? You know, for the people that it's it's it's pure that they're guilty. Sure.

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But then now, does that person deserve some basic human rights? Yeah.

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You know, and that that's you kind of write about that.

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Yeah. Yeah, I write about that. And and you know I was a you know for those that listen to your podcast that are medical students budding physicians

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you know I was a first year medical student when Ahmed Dio got killed. Yes I remember that. Right. He was shot at 41 times. Hit 19.

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He had entrance wounds in the soles of his feet. Man he was on his back when he got shot. He was reaching for his wallet.

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Me and him were the same age when he got killed. I was a first year medical student and I was you know at that point

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you know in four four months later um or 3 months later um Earl Faison was beat

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to death by cops out of Orange and North New Jersey. Um at this point I I said if violence is a public health issue

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because I left the FBI to study violence. Shout out to our surgeon general Dr. David Satcher. uh he wrote the youth violence book and that's what

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got me into violence prevention as a public health issue. But then they killed these brothers. Yeah.

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And so I was one of the f first to write about police brutality is what we called it in the past. Yeah.

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Police brutality as a health issue in the journal of the student national medical association.

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So I've been looking at this issue of violence as a public health issue. Death and custody is what we call it now as a public health issue. not just the

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homicidal deaths but suicides, accidents, natural deaths um as a public

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health issue since uh 1998 999 and um and so I've spent my career trying to

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understand and study from the lens of mortality surveillance. Yeah.

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What do we learn through the public health surveillance of death and and the majority of disease processes we do learn from mortality? How many people

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are dying from breast cancer? That's the first question you ask. How many people are dying from prostate cancer? How many people are dying from um you know COVID,

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right? All these mortality data points, they come to the medical examiner.

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Uh and we have a unique opportunity to look at deaths um from a geography. If

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we if we GIS map them, we have the ability to look at them through age, race, gender, uh degree of education,

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degree of uh job attainment. So, understanding mortality in its full

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context can give you programs and policy that decrease mortality. And I we'll get into it, but the premise of the book, I'll jump to the end.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The premise of the book is we don't know how many people are dying in the custody of our criminal justice system today.

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Um whether it's, you know, causes or whatever, natural causes, any phase of it, we don't know. We don't have an accurate

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count of who's dying in our in our criminal justice system. And I think we should I think we should put a checkbox on the US standard death certificate that says death in custody, yes or no.

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And so we've been advocating that. and I've been working on violence, been working on death and custody at the NMA for over 12 years. I've held the

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secretary, excuse me, I've held the um the secretary position. I've held the vice speaker position. I've held the

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speaker position of the House of Delegates, president-elect, and now president 126 presidents. So, I've been serving Yeah.

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this country, right? This country. I've been serving our community through the National Medical Association and through

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my my brand of medicine, which is forensic medicine.

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I love that. I love what you said. You said it on Meet the Press. I watched that that video uh last night. Um you because you know I don't sleep.

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So yeah, you know cuz Nas said sleep is the cousin of death. So Well, you that put you to sleep is what you said.

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No, it didn't. It did not [laughter] put me to sleep. One of the things at the end so you know that I watched the whole thing. One of the things at the end that you said which I think is is beautiful

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is it's that it's that line of trying to convince people when there's a problem, right? It's a line and I think the the

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world Jordan and I we were talking about this just as pre-show. The world where you raise your hand and say, "Look, there's a problem. Look, there's a

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problem." You like I mean, and and you guys know, thank you for watching, but you will never see a post by me. Oh my

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gosh, there's a problem. That's the problem. There's the problem. Look at that problem. See it over there. Yeah.

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What I'll always say is, "Look at that problem. See it over there. And here's how I think we can solve it together." And what you said at the end of the Meet

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the Press, even though the um reporter was trying to push you a little bit into a statement that I think was polarizing,

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frankly, right? You talked about electing memes and that sort of thing.

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You said that this is everyone's problem. This is everyone's problem.

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this isn't my problem. Of course, I'm part of that community and is near and dear to me, but this isn't everybody problem. I think that that to me was

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brilliant because it makes it more than just, you know, I think the idea that you advocate for yourself or your people or your genre or your cohort is great.

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But if you can convince somebody that that community needs their help, that that's that changes the game.

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Well, you know, the the lie is that every black person is poor and every white person is rich. Right. Right. Uh yes.

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The the the lie is that the majority of individuals in jail, in prison, and come into contact with the criminal legal system is are black.

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Yeah.

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That's the lie. The reality of it is the majority of individuals are poor and white. Yeah.

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And poor and white people are dying at the hands of law enforcement. Right.

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Now, disproportionately, black and brown people as a population because we make up 13% and make up probably closer to

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50% of those that come into contact with the criminal legal system. So, it is a disparity uh within our community. But I

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mean, I do private autopsy cases for the Know Your Rights Camp. Know Your Rights Camp is the Colin Kaepernick group. They do second autopsies for individuals that

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die in and around the criminal legal system as I've as we've defined it.

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And all those people I do second autopsies are aren't on on black folk.

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Yeah. You know, I got white old women coming up to me saying, "Thank you for what you're doing in your book because my son died in in in prison."

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Right. And so [clears throat] so this notion that that it's one community.

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It's a it's a diverse community in and of itself.

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No, it is a diverse community in and of itself. It's like the opioid crisis. Yeah. Yeah.

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It's a diverse community in and of itself. And you know, there was a time when drug addiction was was was a criminal issue and then it became a public health issue. Well, it's time for

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death in custody to become a public health issue and not no longer a criminal criminal justice issue. I I say it all the time, that, you know, jails

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are just big hospitals with with with safety concerns. Yeah.

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Invariably, there are individuals in there that have some type of disease process. And if there's a Medicaid

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inmate exclusion policy where where our uh Medicaid laws do not extend to those

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that are incarcerated, then as many jails and prisons there are in this country as as many health care systems that you have,

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right? And you just can you imagine that? You're just making the problem worse.

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You're making the problem worse if there's no standardization. There are jails and prisons in this country that don't have an electronic health record.

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Yeah. Yeah, the majority don't.

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Yeah, you know, they're on a paper record if they have an Excel spreadsheet, right?

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And how do you create preventative structure? If people are going to be in jail for 50 years, don't you need a a regular continuum to check their prostate, to check their colon, right?

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Um to to test them for hypertension and and and diabetes, right? Especially with the food that's being provided there.

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Um, but that regular cadence of of of what we know leads to better health outcomes doesn't exist within our

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criminal justice system. And to your point, people like, well, they committed a crime. But the reality of it is is the majority of people that go to jail or prison get out.

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Yeah. And they're going to it's going to cost the health system anyway if we don't provide, you know, at least the very basics of prevention as you

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mentioned. That's right. Um, you know, so to switch gears a little bit because I write about this in a way that um in a

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very Canadian in a very uh way. I I think it's a can I think it's a Canadian way. Um, but listen,

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I know a little bit about, you know, what you call police brutality. For me, I think it's like, okay,

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misperception, putting people in boxes, right? I mean, you know, I write about the episode I had in in college where I

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got choked out by the police. Wasn't wasn't, you know, I called them, you know, somebody was attacking us. I called them, choked out. And then 20

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years later, um, you know, in California, which is in New York to California, um, you know, I'm on the road now gravel, um, as people are

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passing by. And so, a lot of people know those stories, but there's something there, right? the Amadu Dialo story, you

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know, Malcolm Gladwell, who was on the podcast, we talked about it. You know, that was I think his book Blink was the book where he talked about that that quick second that that you know, you

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think like systemic problems, they don't always manifest in a systemic way. It's that blink. It's that moment.

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And I think that um when you look at a lot of that, especially related to death in custody or some of these terrible,

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terrible cases like Amadu in that moment, what do you think's going on with people? What do you think that, you know, if you had to take your,

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you know, your forensic pathology lens and apply it to somebody's psychology?

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What in that moment is going on? Oh, it's fear. I mean, it's fear. It's othering. Yeah.

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It's it's lack of connection. Yeah.

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It's um not providing the benefit of the doubt. It's it's training.

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It's how those systems um and your upbringing. It's what happened to you the week before. Yeah.

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Right. So, you know, when I was at the bureau, um I got trained in post-traumatic stress disorder and critical incident stress management.

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That's what made me see violence as a public health issue along with David Satcher's book. Um, and so I used to help uh law enforcement, FBI, if they

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discharged their weapon, then they would call EAP coordinator, which which which was I was in that role as an EAP

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coordinator and I would I would provide support and get them to someone that could support them. And in that, I learned violence begat violence. and in

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that post-traumatic stress is that that fear, right? And so, not every law enforcement officer that engages in this

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type of uh activity is fearful. Um, and not all of them are racist. Some of them are fearful and not racist.

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Right. Right.

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And some of them are racist and not fearful. Um, but at the end of the day, the othering of other people Yeah. the

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you us against you um will will create an environment in that blank like you said um I told you to reach for your

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wallet right and now I'm reaching right and now scared of that act I'm still scared of that act right and

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and and we create some such simplicity because our minds as humans require us to to create these silos create create

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these false false kind of divisions on how we can understand this phenomenon.

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Um, but I'll tell you this, we don't we can't know as much of about it as we should if we're not counting him.

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Yeah.

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If we're not You can't learn as much about prostate cancer if you're not looking at all of the ways individuals

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are dying from prostate cancer. There is no way that you can study prostate cancer and not have an under

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understanding of um how people's biology and their social environment is leading

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to better or poorer outcomes. And that's what we're asking for with death and custody, but that's what we're asking

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for with all areas of death, not just death and custody. I often say, Mo, that I see I see failed policy on my autopsy

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tape. Yeah, that's one of the things that I say all the time because that's what made me want to become a hospital president. How do you how does a forensic pathologist

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become a hospital president is because I was counting people that were dying from cardiovascular disease and I was diagnosing their coronary artery disease post postmortm.

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Postmortem I'm their primary care provider. Yeah.

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I'm seeing their 90% athoscotic stenosis of their LA. For those that's the left anterior descending corner. I'm seeing

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it. They didn't see it. They didn't go, they never got to a doctor. Their family had no idea that they were having um chest pains, but I'm seeing the old

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scars and the new myioardial infar in in that heart tissue. Right. Postmortem.

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It's clear as day. It's not It's not something that you have to run a test for. It's right there in front. I'm looking at it and I'm looking at it under the microscope.

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Yeah. Right.

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So So I would I have to ask you a question.

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Sure. you I know Jordan you had some well I mean for those people who aren't doctors who are listening to this Yeah yeah yeah what did you what what did that mean

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[laughter]

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I'm asking for a friend yeah yeah well well I mean you know doctor so so doctor so [laughter] at the

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end of the day when you when when the way we have heart attacks is because we don't have enough blood that gets to the heart tissue right

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and that is because of a clogged artery all those fancy words would say I saw a clogged artery at autopsy All right. When I did the dissection, that's it.

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Yeah. Nice.

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So, it's interesting. I I I we were we I was whining about social media, right? And and and that's so that's going to be my rant today.

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So, that's serious. That's some serious stuff. But on the levity side, yeah, I want to know this because I'm seeing a lot of viral stuff on Tik Tok and

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Instagram about it. As an Emmy, are the bodies moving? Did you ever see a body move? Were you up? Were you

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freaked out? Because I'm listen because I did this in medical school with the dead body. Yeah.

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And it's two and I'm a night person, you know. I was nocturnist. I was a yard nocturnist. So I'm going to the lab, the anatomy lab at 3:00 in the morning.

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What's that? What's that?

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Yeah, that was you. That [laughter] was you.

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That was you. Ain't nobody ain't nobody moving.

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Ain't nobody sitting up. You know, they got a barrel. But you know I can I can there is a

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[sighs] man there is a aura around people around some people and other people

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don't have it like I've been in rooms and I'm it's a dead body and that dead

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body feels sleep to me not dead really.

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Wow. So, so I've been And then there's others that you know there is nothing

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but there are you you ever walk in somebody's sleeping. Yeah. Yeah.

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They're sleeping. You're not You didn't even see their chest move but you know they're sleeping. Yeah.

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Right. I've You feel their presence.

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You feel their presence, man.

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I've been in rooms where the body had a presence. Uh but no nobody's moved on me. No.

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Okay. Well, see see we started something levity and we got something real deep. Yeah. Yeah. Real deep. You're deep. You're deep, dude.

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I'm a funny guy. But so listen, man. Let's let's talk about this.

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I want to ask you the question that I ask everybody, but before we get there, because we were kind of talking about some things pre-show, and you were giving me a hard time as you normally do. Yeah.

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Um and as my brother, you challenge me and give me the opportunity to be all of me. Um and I've been struggling. I told

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you I've been struggling. And I've been struggling in this world where um going back to medical school, even premedical

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school, you know, like I've always had this compulsion to just try to do things differently, try to impact differently.

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It's manifested in lots of different ways, right? You know, the the rapper, the basketball player, the students, um

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you know, the uh the physician and now this physician leader. And uh I'll be honest with you and [clears throat] and you all know I've been struggling with

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this a little bit, but these merging of worlds, it makes me nervous. Yeah.

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And uh so I guess um Yeah. Why Why does it make you nervous? Now you're on the seat, right? Now I'm on the seat. You want to switch? We should switch.

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I mean, at the you know the you know it depends on why it makes you nervous.

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So I advocate for I tell everybody right society builds these boxes for you. You build these boxes for yourself. Break out. Disrupt them. and maybe the boxes

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that I have and remember just like you write about things in less than 1% I'm writing about it. Yeah.

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But I'm I'm I'm identifying a problem and working to solve it but I'm not an expert at doing it yet. Right. Like I

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mean I'm still trying and I probably have this these five or six boxes and to try to push them together. The nervousness I think is you know and we

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talk about this all the time in this environment. is is this move going to resonate or will this move be accepted,

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you know, versus this environment? Um, I think the answer is yes. You're a baller. You're a baller. I appreciate that. Right.

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If you're a baller, boy, before the game, no matter how no matter how how much you practiced Yes.

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No h no matter how prepared you are. Yeah. You going to be a little nervous.

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Yeah. It's part of It's part of the game. It's just part of the game.

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It's part of the game. It's part of the game. It's part of the game. If you're not nervous, then do you really want it? Do you want to win the championship?

26:98

If you're not Sometimes I'm nervous in practice. Yeah. Yeah.

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I'm working on a case right now of a uh uh of a homicide that that they've they're consulting me and while I'm working on the report, I'm nervous.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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Right. Because truth, when you're a trutht teller, you know, and not to not to get too deep, but when you're a truth teller and

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you're a black man, there's every input in the society that says you better be nervous.

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And it it it's probably deeply psychological. I don't think it's like on the surface. It's not on the surface.

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I think a lot of people like get caught up in sort of like, oh, what people say, but it it is a deep ingrained kind of thing. That's right. where you're like,

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hey, you know, can I reveal this aspect of who I am? Not because I'm selfish.

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And I think that's the key. You're not revealing it because you're selfish.

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You're revealing because you believe that it can have in impact.

27:58

Oh, yeah. It's always It's always about the when you're on the court, it's always about the team. It's always about the win. It's always about, you know,

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it's the difference between somebody that's going to dive on the floor for the ball in the first quarter to make sure it doesn't go out of bounds versus

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the one that's waiting for the game to be tied to do it, right? It it it it is that is that passion. It's what makes you the the

28:25

what's makes you the the captain of the squad. It's what makes you, you know, Brunson. It's the one, you know, when when it's clutch time,

28:33

when you're down 30, you still the same guy. Who you gonna give the ball to? Yeah.

28:37

Right. And who who does people trust, man? I'll trust you with the ball, Moo.

28:42

You see what I'm saying? Like, we just getting started. I'm trusting you with the ball.

28:46

I appreciate it. because the amount of lives that are in your hands, you know, obviously you'll say, "Yeah, it's the it's the whatever thousands of doctors

28:54

that are that are work for Vitality and all of that and it's the thousands and they're the ones taking care of the patients." But, okay, let's boil it all

29:01

the way up, right? Yeah.

29:04

The the I mean, millions of people that are being served, right? I got to trust the ball in your hands. And I don't think there's anybody in the country that we can trust with

29:12

the ball in your hands than the two people here. We got the the president of the National Medical Association represent 50,000 black doctors in the country.

29:21

And we got the the the leading CEO of the the best and brightest group of physicians in the country um sitting at a sitting at a microphone.

29:32

Yeah. Telling the world. Telling the world how nervous we are. Yeah. How nervous. You better be nervous. That's crazy. You better be. That's crazy.

29:40

You bet. You would be a robot if you weren't nervous, right? Yeah. That just speaks uh you just I am thoroughly uncomfortable at this moment. Just letting y'all know.

29:50

But that's that is that is that's deep. That is deep, you know. And obviously you helped me uh in this moment. Continue to help me. We're going

29:59

to do amazing things. We're going we're doing uh we're going to the MMA conference. That's right. That's going to be exciting.

30:05

But I you've also helped other people and you've helped a lot of people in different ways. Um, some benown to you, some unbeknownst to you.

30:16

So, I want to play this clip. I want to play this clip because this this was the most powerful. You know, my my night shift last night watch just devouring

30:24

everything. Roger Mitchell, Dr. Roger Mitchell. Let's play let's play this clip, right?

‍

30:26

You say your dad was in and out your life. Do you have a relationship with him now?

30:37

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. My dad is um actually one of my best friends now.

30:45

Yeah. Um, my dad is uh uh is clean. Uh, when I was about Yeah. Yeah.

30:52

Yeah. Um, when when when I was about um

31:00

uh 22, he called. When he got to the point where he was down and out, it was important for him to call out. He knew he needed help. So, we went and got him.

31:10

I went and brought him into my home. I That was I was at the bureau then. had to let my chief know, hey, I'm bringing my dad into my house now, you know. So, I brought him in. We worked it out, man.

31:16

I got him into um outpatient program, then got him into an inpatient program.

31:19

And when he went into the inpatient program, let me show you how God works.

31:25

That was my time to move on to medical school. So, I mean, it I mean, it couldn't have been orchestrated better.

31:33

So, now my dad is a substance abuse counselor at the Veterans Hospital. Wow.

31:40

guru right there. [laughter] I had to bring you stories like that a long time ago about redemption and everything. I love

31:48

forgiveness. I love people who stay with it, who come back from his dad to his co-workers. Uh Dr. Mitchell has touched

31:57

many lives. And when we come back, uh someone is here to offer their big time thanks. You touched somebody's life and you may not understand the impact you

32:05

truly had. When we come back, we're going to find out who that mystery guest is. And I know you don't like surprises because your wife told the [ __ ] That's right. That's [laughter] right.

32:13

So, I'm sitt I'm trying to chill out on you. You're looking crazy right now. Find out who it is right after this. Talk about being nervous.

32:21

Yeah. Yeah. But this this this is a big surprise. Were you surprised? Yeah, I was, man. Yeah, I was, man. I was. I was.

32:27

Let's see. Let's see. Let's see what the surprise is. Folks, I'm back with New Jersey's regional medical examiner, Dr.

32:34

Roger Mitchell. You so uncomfortable right here, Dr. Mitchell. [laughter] He's done so much for so many people that one of those people wanted to say

32:44

thank you. So, [laughter] it's really time to find out who it is. So, uh I know you don't like surprises, but uh here we go. Uh let's have our thank you

32:48

guest come on up, man.

32:53

Yes, sir. Yeah. [cheering] Yeah.

33:02

That senior right there is tough. That's senior.

33:04

[cheering]

33:12

I love you, baby. Wow. Wow. That's I love you, too. I love you, too.

33:21

Come on in, man. Come on over here and sit up. Now, Dr. Mitchell, who is this man right here, man? This is my father. Can you see the resemblance? [laughter]

33:28

Roger. I just want to take this opportunity to tell you I thank you.

33:33

I I I thank you for for not giving up on me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

33:41

I thank you. I thank you for being there for me. I I thank you for being my best friend. Yeah. I [snorts] thank you for all the things.

33:48

You inspired me to move on. I heard you before telling that I was a an addiction counselor, but I have even moved on from

33:54

there because of you. You made it one way. Now I'm a licensed certified addiction counselor level two. Level two.

33:57

Yeah. That's right. That's right. That's right.

34:06

If it wasn't for if it wasn't for you in my life, you just stood there and you waited until you knew that I was on the right path and you went back to school.

34:11

I love you.

34:16

I'm just trying to pour all the tears out. Where we going right here? Amen.

34:23

So, wow. Look, look, look. It's tough. You got You got [snorts] Steve on that one. Go ahead. Look at him. You got Steve on that one.

34:28

Okay. So, hearing your father, how does this make you feel?

34:33

Listen, you know, it's important for people to understand.

34:37

Let me let me let me Jordan, let me let me let me hear from the man himself.

34:43

Uh, let me hear from the man himself on that one. So I mean that moment that moment.

34:52

So I mean you know like fathers like we can go into the whole thing our fathers and you know how how

34:57

you know as as kids they are they are built in in our minds.

35:05

They're built a certain way in our minds and as we get older, we see the frailty and uh and in that moment. Yeah.

35:09

Uh man, how did you feel? Like what was your what was going through your mind?

35:17

And you you it almost looked like you were trying to hold it together because you were on air, but yeah, you know, my

35:23

my my father got caught up in the in the 80s, man. Yeah.

35:26

That crack epidemic that was real.

35:34

Yeah. for a lot of families, you know, and and where I'm from and I I grew up in the suburbs, you know, I grew up in

35:44

the suburbs, you know, my dad, he worked hard, my mother worked hard, come from a good family, and that crack epidemic stole people.

35:49

It stole people to the addiction and it stole people to to the incarceration.

35:56

And my my dad was one of the people that got stolen um to the addiction.

36:03

And so the opportunity as a young man in my 20s

36:15

to be able to go get him from underneath the boardwalk and bring him into my home and make sure that he got into the right treatment um was a blessing.

36:19

Yeah. Because it made room for all my gifts.

36:27

Um that's why I'm fearless today. It's I've seen too much. But that but that's a that's an abnormal response.

36:29

Yeah. But it's not but it's not.

36:33

Yeah. I mean what I'm saying is not I should say not abnormal atypical.

36:43

No. But it's not right. Even even some of the the men you talk about in your book, right? Even you know some that uh

36:48

they're great be because of their circumstances. Yes.

36:54

There's more stories about kings that had no fathers. Yeah.

37:01

Or athletes that go on that grew up from from humble beginnings than there are not.

37:02

Right.

37:10

There's something about the soil of struggle. Yes. That leads to excellence. Yeah.

37:19

More often than not. Yes. Some of it leads and I had my I had opportunities where I could have gone one way or the other. I think we all have.

37:27

Yeah. No. No. I was on the I was on the the one way or the other. I was down at I [laughter] was out of the way. I was like, "Oh, wait. Let me let me back up. Let me make this U-turn,

37:37

right? Because that's what happens." But I'm I'm who I am, you know, not only because of of my father's fall, but his his resurrection.

37:44

And that's the that's the truth, man of both fathers I have. You see what I'm saying? And and and also my mother

37:44

and the family. So, so um you know my father um we just celebrated um my first Father's Day without him.

‍

37:46

We talked about that in DC.

38:07

Yeah. So, you know, this is what we're doing here and and for those that listen

38:16

and are are looking for inspiration, there's inspiration in your own life. Yeah.

38:22

You know, there's so many of us that were told we couldn't do it. I'm one of them.

38:30

You're not going to be good enough to do what you said. I remember in my first year of medical school, we were we were I just told this story at a graduation

38:37

that I just gave, right? Commencement speech this past week. And we're all in a circle. It's about, you know, they

38:44

broke the the the entering class up into three. So, there's about maybe 70 50 to 70 people in this group. And they go

38:52

around the what do you want to be when you when you're done medical school? And it's like I want to be a pediatrician and I want to be a a surgeon, an OBGY.

39:00

And they get to me and I said I want to be the chief medical examiner of New Jersey. You did say that.

39:03

And the professor laughed at me.

39:11

Wow. [laughter] You need to just worry about getting out of medical school.

39:14

Wait, wait, wait. I thought we were going around. Yeah.

39:22

I thought everybody was going around telling what type of doctor they want to be. Everybody Everybody had a chance. I didn't just raise Everybody had an

39:26

opportunity to say who they were going to be. And when it got to me, it was funny. Yeah.

39:30

Didn't everybody have to worry about graduating medical school? Yeah.

39:38

So, so the haters, the naysayers, those that don't believe in your vision and your dream, they will always be

39:48

there. I think that I think the power of what you said I mean you know I started with the book I started the book with a conversation with my coach my executive

39:56

coach at the time and I think that I think that's the that's the the ones I always remember

40:02

you know are those individuals that

40:09

were in their position to help you. I think the idea of a hater to me a hater is like a hater like you know rap rap

40:09

rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap

40:17

rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap rap thing you know you hat oh oh that's my hater whatever but I think the freneommy as the kids say you know I think the freneommy which in in this case there's

40:25

another word for someone who's responsible for making sure you achieve who says no you you can't do it there's something powerful

40:36

for some of us I think for other others of us it's devastating I take I take it back to the blink yeah yeah what was in that blink Yeah.

40:44

Was it the same blink that made someone shoot Amadiala 41 times that made him say that to me?

40:46

Yeah. Right. It's the same blink.

40:53

It's the same blink and it's it's the same blink and it's so complex to really fully understand because I don't think

41:01

that in that blink that you can analyze it, but I don't think people are being fully honest in that moment.

41:02

Yeah.

41:04

If somebody would just say, "Listen, man.

41:13

Listen, Roger, I've seen you like I'm like, there's no way the way that you act and the way that you dress and what you do that you're going to be able to achieve that. I can take that.

41:14

Yeah.

41:21

You know, I mean, I'm going to wear a suit at your event, but you if you give me a choice, I'm not going to wear one.

41:28

Right. And and I think that that's Well, and that's the choice I got on the podcast. [laughter] There was a choice. I said, "Oh, I

41:33

didn't got to put on a collar. I know where I'm going." Right. Right. Right.

41:40

I told my wife on my way, I said, "He not the only one with t-shirts. I got t-shirts." I had to figure out which one I was going to wear.

41:42

Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right.

41:46

I said, "Let me go classic black cuz I know that's where I'mma be." That's where be. Yeah.

41:53

But but you know, something to be said about resilience. You know, you have all these books behind you. I see this anti-fragile.

42:01

Yeah. I mean, if you're going to be successful, if you're going to be the less than 1%, then you have to

42:10

understand that your your self-worth, your worth is has to be greater than you than it is in the world.

42:12

Yeah. Right. And where does that come from?

42:19

And myriad of people will have different reasons why and where it comes from. Yeah. Right. Me, I'm a deeply spiritual guy.

42:29

So, I, you know, believe my power comes from above. Right. and then my circumstances and what I've lived and the thousands of families that I've made promises to.

42:35

Yeah. In the death of their loved one, right? Gives me a gives me a different lens.

42:44

I think Oh, no. Please. I think that uh you know the the the thing that's ringing in my head is Dion what Dion says about confidence and he you know he

42:52

said it on at a conference at a a press conference for Colorado but it's part of what you said resonated with me

42:59

and you know he says hey confidence is not the confidence is not my problem it's your problem. Yeah, it's the way you perceive what I'm

43:05

doing. I'm confident about what coach and think about this. It's so crazy, right, for Dion?

43:13

What coach goes up there and says, "Listen, I want to lose, but when Dion says it,

43:14

it's a problem." That's right.

43:24

for people. And that's why he said it's not your problem. But to your point, I think that um the permission that you gave me uh you know, even though I'm

43:33

fearful or a little anxious of it, which is appropriate, is to merge all of who we are into maximizing the most amazing

43:37

performance that we want to get out of this short time that we're here on this planet.

43:44

And and it's and and if you're not doing it authentically yourself, Yeah. it's hard to sustain. You can't sustain it.

43:52

It's hard enough Yeah. to to to to want to be great and and to to to be great for other people and to be other centered and committed

44:00

to other people and conscientious and complimentary um uh and compassionate all the things that make you a

44:07

promise-driven leader. Right. That's hard enough. And if you have to do it with some falsehood Yeah.

44:14

Right. And that's not to say not to be easily entreated. The word says, you know, you want to make sure people are comfortable with you,

44:23

right? you know, you want to help them right get your message and understand their own potential, right, in whatever

44:30

problem that you're solving in that moment. Um, so you know, you and there's times to be righteously indignant,

44:39

right? There's times forever. There's seasons for everything. Um but boy if you have to do it not yourself and do it

44:48

in a monolith when we are a complex to to suggest that we have all the organs and all the self systems in our in our

44:52

body and then suggest that we have to be one thing is terrible.

45:00

It's you can't it's impossible. The people that are struggling to be to do one to be one thing are the people that are are probably the most miserable.

45:02

Yeah. I I see it. I see it every day.

45:12

And we see it not only in the worlds that we're that we have colliding, you know, entertainment, you know, sports, music, healthcare, but I see it

45:19

especially in people in healthcare because there's this structure that we think that we need to live in to be able to have impact. You mentioned so many

45:27

things um today and it's the time for the question. You know, we probably got to get a we gotta get a little we gota

45:27

get a little razledazzle on the question. You What you doing, Jordan? I mean, we got to, you know, we need to have No, no, no. You can't do it right now.

‍

45:29

I know you want to try to go do it real quick, but we need a little like 15 second sizzle on the question. Yeah. Because it's a question I ask everybody. Okay.

45:50

Um, and it's I think more importantly with the question. Um, it gets people thinking hopefully.

45:58

Sometimes I like that they haven't thought about it before, but I think people are out there really struggling with, hey, what's my impact in the world and what what do I use to

46:06

be able to impact the world? So, the question is, what is Dr. Roger Mitchell Jr.'s superpower?

46:08

Wow.

46:18

Wow. Um, you know, I think probably it's such a cliche, though.

46:21

Listen, let's hear it. I It doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it. Yeah.

46:30

I mean, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You ain't watch the show. It doesn't mean that I'm Hold on. Let me put my Put your Hey, let me tell you. Sprite where you hilarious.

46:36

Look at my sprite down. Listen, it doesn't mean that you tell me this superpower and I'm like, "Oh yes, Dr.

46:41

Roger Mitchell superpower." Let's move on to the next question. That's not this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

46:48

This podcast you tell me and then I look at Jordan and I think about it knowing you and from what you just told me and

46:52

then I kind of push you a little bit. So just start with where you want.

47:01

You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna start like high level. I think love is my superpower, man. You got to say more, man. I love people, man.

47:10

I love people so much that I help, you know, and it and it shows up different for different people depending on what type of love they need, you know. It

47:18

might be hard love, it might be intimate, it might be uh distant. Um, but it might be service, it might show

47:26

up as service. Um, but you know, I'm a forensic pathologist that actually loves people. That's true. Which is which is

47:32

so ironic, right? In some ways, you know, and my wife will tell you that sometimes I get sick of people. Yeah.

47:39

Because I love them so hard. I want to see them do better, you know. So, yeah, I I you know, I think it's I think it's love, man. And

47:48

so, all this stuff, everything that I'm doing um is not only to give love, but selfishly because I believe in selfish selflessness.

47:50

Yes. Um is to get love.

47:59

Yeah. You know, it goes back to the trauma on that on that screen. Yeah. You know, you mentioned something that I think is so true. Introversion. There's multiple

48:07

ways to be introverted, but one of the ways that people are introverted, I think, is they care so just intimately and

48:15

deeply with people that they're nervous, they're scared to to be in environments where they have to do that much. They just don't have the energy.

48:18

Yeah. Yeah. To be able to do with that many people. Yeah. I'm an empath.

48:25

Yeah. I I can feel people's emotion. I know where how people are showing up. I can meet them there.

48:32

You just said that you felt the aura from dead people. So, we got to I mean, is there more to this story? That's That's crazy, [laughter] right?

48:36

I think I might have said that first time ever in your breaking news.

48:38

This is a first time. They're coming to get me.

48:41

That's the other question we say. That's the other time.

48:46

Uh it's the medical board and they call the show. Sorry. Yeah.

48:54

Whatever you have licenses are. So, listen. So, we're Okay, we're going to go with love. I I I feel you. I'm not going to push. I think there's more to that.

48:56

I think there's more there.

48:58

Um I think that's more of a catalyst.

49:04

I think it's I think it gives him energy, but that's not totally my definition of superpower.

49:12

Yeah, I always But but it's okay. That's okay. I'm gonna I'm going to let it rest and we're gonna we're gonna make the call. We're going to have you call

49:15

somebody else and see what they say yours.

49:20

Oh, wow. All right. All right. So, now we're going to All right. Let's see. Oh, so I put I got to call him with the earphones on.

49:25

Yeah. When we when you talk to him, you just uh talk to the mic. You just leave it. You don't have to put it on speaker or anything. Okay.

49:32

Yeah. Just hitting talking to the mic and and uh we'll hear. All right. Let's see.

49:49

See if he answers.

49:50

Hello.

49:53

Yo, it's Raj. Yes, sir.

49:59

Yo, I'm on I'm on uh they got me on this live podcast. Moo Tomlinson less than

50:07

1%. Um, this is this is G. Uh, this is my oldest my oldest friend in the world.

50:11

Known each other since we were 9 years old. G, can you hear me?

50:13

Yes, I can. Very clearly, my brother.

50:18

Awesome. Hey. Hey. This is M. How you doing? How you doing, Mr. Mo?

50:22

Good. Good. Good to meet you. Uh, is it okay to call you G? Yes, sir. Absolutely.

50:30

Okay. Cuz I know you and Roger have some history, so I don't want to I don't want to be disrespectful. [laughter] No, we all met. Let's do it. Let's

50:37

Yeah, let's do it. So, we have a question for Roger that we asked and then what we want we asked him to do is say, "Hey, call somebody that knows you

50:45

well and we're going to we're going to kind of see if he's, you know, just blowing smoke uh or if if if he's really

50:57

answering the question deeply." And so, that question for you is, what would you say his superpower is?

51:08

He got a lot of those [laughter] since we've been kids. He got a whole bunch of them. Um, he's an Iron Man. He's he's an iron man.

51:16

Uh, and what I what I mean by that is that he he carries all of the elements

51:25

of a man. He's a great father. He's he was my best friend in the whole wide world. Uh he's a great uh you know he's

51:35

a great friend, he's a great parent, he's just he's just great all around all around. He's a great doctor. He's a great communicator.

51:40

Um that answers your question. Does it answer it?

51:47

Listen listen, it answers it for me. You know what I mean? [laughter] So tell tell them what you what you said your super

51:55

So G I said my superpower was love. that I just give a lot of love and different types of love in different

52:02

situations, but I think the overarching I said was love. So, you know, they trying to see whether or not

52:06

you know me the best. If that makes sense to you.

52:15

Yeah, it does. I mean, love. Yeah. But I mean, all of those things that I said pertain to that. You can't do all of the things that I said without love, right?

52:23

So, yeah. Okay. I'm sorry I didn't say the word love. respon to us. What's the next question? Hey. Hey, you want a next question?

52:26

Okay. Okay. I got I got one for you. Yes, sir.

52:34

Now, you have to understand this is going to be, you know, all over the world. So, but to the degree you can't expose This is going to be all over the world.

52:38

G. To the degree you can'expose Dr.

52:44

Mitchell, tell us something. Uh, a little embarrassment that

52:46

[laughter]

52:50

Oh, come on, y'all.

52:57

Okay, how about this? What's What's his What's his stage name? What's his stage name?

53:04

Yeah. Yeah, he bro. What kind of question are these?

53:08

What's his rapper talking about? He's a rapper. I want to know what his rapper He did not say he was a rapper.

53:12

[laughter]

53:20

the rapper name. The preacher that let's go. That's good. That's good.

53:27

You see, hey, this [clears throat] is this this has to be your boy cuz he's not going to out you on any No, he ain't going. That's why he said,

53:37

"What kind of questions are these?" I'm not embarrassing, my brother. We don't do that from where I'm from. Absolutely not.

53:42

It didn't didn't even flinch. No, absolutely not. And I will not

53:44

[laughter]

53:48

Who was this again? Word. Yeah.

53:51

You know what I'm saying? Did you say your name was Moose, sir?

54:01

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And And we want to get your credit number and your social security number. [laughter] Absolutely not.

54:03

Oh man. Well, listen, I appreciate you.

54:07

I know. Sorry to take time out of your day, but it was a great call. I appreciate you.

54:10

Nah, no problem at all. No problem at all.

54:16

G, I appreciate you, baby. Love you, man. All right. Love y'all. Peace. Peace.

54:21

That was awesome. [laughter] I mean, man. Iron Man. Iron Man. I like that.

54:26

Well, let Wait, before we get to that, Before we get to that, he didn't flinch.

54:30

No, he didn't flinch. He didn't flinch. No, sir.

54:35

He was like, "Nope." Who are you? Who are you? What's your name? What's your name? What?

54:42

Say your name is Moo, sir. [laughter] Yeah, that's it. Didn't flinch. No. Uhuh. Didn't flinch.

54:45

Cuz I got too many secrets. Yes. And I don't know where to put them.

54:55

Listen, he was Listen, I put all my secrets with him and my wife. It's a good one. He was He was about to take 25 to life.

54:56

[laughter]

54:59

25 to life. I told you. 25 to life.

55:05

We known each other for 43 years. That's amazing. That's amazing.

55:08

43 years. That's my oldest friend in the world. That's amazing, man. Yeah.

55:14

Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. No, I did. I just said Iron Man. I like that. What do you think about that?

55:20

Well, you know, I've been there for him. Yeah. And he's been there for me. Yeah.

55:33

I think I think the work that we do, Mo, and and again, I this we're having conversations about me, but this work it requires you to be relentless.

55:37

Yeah. It requires you to take shots. Yeah.

55:42

You know, I'gotten death threats for the work that I've done on death in custody.

55:50

You know, you you you have to be willing to do the work. Yeah. And um there's been sleepless nights.

55:58

There's been sleepless weeks, right? And uh but but it's not the the great thing about the work that you do and and this

56:08

the book that you've put out in this podcast is that you you're pulling together people that have very similar characteristics.

56:17

And when it's all said and done and you write the next book, right, um from the podcast, you you'll be able to say, "See, this is what I told you."

56:25

Yeah. successful people, people that are other centered, they there's particular qualities. Uh, and part of that is is is

56:29

being able to to show up for your friends and family and and community.

56:37

And I think you I think you hit it, man. I think you hit it. You're you're the first Well, maybe not the first person to recognize it, but definitely the

56:47

first first person to really audibleize it, to really say it, which is yes, I'm in healthcare. Yes, I'm a CEO uh of

56:56

amazing Vitudi is an amazing partnership. I would never be I would never be in the position or have the platform I have without Vitudi. There's no there's no pretense about that.

56:57

Yeah.

57:03

But and I should say and and I believe that health care's

57:12

problems are broader than just a group of physicians in a room in some dark smoky room making decisions about people.

57:16

That's right. You have to know people. That's right. They have to we have to do this.

57:20

Well, community is I mean that's the that's the whole point, right? Yeah.

57:29

Is that health and and healthy outcomes is more about zip code than it is about you know your DNA,

57:34

right? And it's more about relationships uh than it is about anything else.

57:40

You know, I've never had somebody sit across from me and tell me that they figured everything out.

57:47

No. people are always striving to get better, striving to do more. And I think that's I I appreciate uh you identifying

57:55

that. This is something we try to strive to do is bring people on here who really have a story, a less than 1% story, but

57:59

are now trying to take that and take it to a whole other level. Absolutely.

58:07

You know, um so what next, man? Like, so you've done all of these things, you know, go everybody

58:15

go digest Roger Mitchell Jr., you know, if you just put it into YouTube, you'll get all the different things that you've been on. I didn't do justice to all of

58:18

them. We could have been here for six hours playing every single clip. Yeah.

58:26

Um and the impact you've had, but but now president of the MMA, we were talking about this in the elevator as you were coming up here and I said,

58:33

Roger, this this I know that you've been on this journey since medical school with the

58:42

particular president of the MMA that the role that you have Yeah. It's a year role and you've done so much in that year, but that year is closing.

58:43

It is.

58:50

What's next? What What is What where's what what TV show [laughter] am I going to see Dr. Roger Mitchell on next?

58:59

Well, the the the great thing is is that um NMA we've been working on uh trying to get checkboxes on local uh state

59:06

death certificates because the the national death certificate is not ready for that that checkbox yet. And I just

59:13

found out last week that Delaware has passed um the check box um for the

59:22

[clears throat] Delaware state um um death certificate pass their house and their senate. It's going to be it's going to the governor's

59:29

desk. So, we are we are at this point very um uh hopeful uh that that will be

59:37

the second state cuz uh DC has it on its death certificate. Um a checkbox on the death certificate that says death in

59:47

custody, yes or no. So, we can start capturing that data. Um and I bring that up because I think my next phase is I want to start my own center, my own center of excellence.

59:54

Yeah. Um, I'm having conversations with some academic institutions on where we're going to land. Um, I'll have to

1:00:00

come back on and announce once I got that deal done uh on that next location.

1:00:08

Uh, but I'm I want to teach the next generation of medical students and um, uh, MH's, masters of public health

1:00:17

and law students in an interdisciplinary way. The global practice of death investigation. Yeah. how you use mortality surveillance to establish

1:00:25

policy and programs. Um, so I want to teach it. I want to I want to create this environment where we're uh

1:00:32

researching and using data to to solve uh solve problems and and um so that's the next [clears throat] phase.

1:00:40

You got to you got to get into my deep psyche. Um so it gives me the right the opportunity to challenge you a little bit.

1:00:49

I think that's great. Um, but you have an ability to connect um, very broadly and I I don't know if

1:00:56

that's your superpower, but that's what we all see outside looking at you and your ability to connect within

1:01:05

healthcare and those, you know, the NMA and obviously when you were the, you know, you were the president of Howard University Hospital and you Yeah. Yeah.

1:01:13

Yeah. you do that well, but your ability to to to to connect and to connect cross

1:01:20

industry is amazing. You the impact the ability for us to go to, you know, to talk to kids that are that are rapping,

1:01:28

to talk to kids that are, you know, playing rock music or acting or kids that are, like you said, doing law or

1:01:35

deciding to go into business, right? I think that's the next level of really change management. It's not just I think

1:01:44

you know the the criticism of both you and I and I'm sitting here as as the teacher and the student in this regard is that we feel that our impact is in a

1:01:50

niche and I think if you look back historically at a lot of the names you mentioned there are new names that have

1:01:59

to be now that 50 years from now they need to say those names and I think that you have an ability to be cross industry

1:02:07

crossnitch with the messages that you bring yes they're particular to, you know, those who die in custody, particular to being a medical examiner,

1:02:15

but they're also will deeply resonate with people just trying to be better, just trying to get better. So, I'm going to push you a little bit. No,

1:02:22

I know you do it and you maybe not telling us everything, but I think in your future that that's somewhere where you could, you know,

1:02:27

100%. Moo. I mean, I'm not going nowhere. I mean, I got more books in me. Yes.

1:02:35

I have I'm a minister. I, you know, I I I support men in their manhood. I support marriages.

1:02:40

My wife and I, you know, there's so much. I won't be put in a box. Yes, sir.

1:02:44

Um, and so I'm outside as as as the kids would say. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

1:02:44

Um, and and then we have work to do. Um, the one thing that I'm working on as well is um a physician burnout retreat center.

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1:02:51

That's good. Uh, and I'm doing some some work with with a colleague where we have a a 30 acres in in the Chesapeake and a mansion to support physicians that need to retreat um in a full program. So, there's things like that and then and then we have work that's all over the

1:03:08

globe too. So, so you know, um we're going to have opportunity, but but the this notion of being able to motivate the next generation of physicians. Yeah.

1:03:23

And future physicians. I call it the mirror of relevancy. You know, people have to see us.

1:03:29

Yeah. and you do it well with uh with your foundation with cares. Um being able to be visible um so that people can say, "Wow, I didn't know the dude with all those tattoos. I got my tattoos covered up. I didn't want to scare y'all over here." Um Yeah. Oh, well, I see you. Don't make

1:03:47

me take my jacket off. But um they need to be able to see and be like, "Man, I can be a doctor." Yeah. Absolut absolutely. So, and so,

1:03:56

you know, you know, I you know, I'm a foundation where where I can pour into to young people um and get them to want to be be a physician of any type, but particularly forensic pathologists.

1:04:09

There's 850 forensic pathologists in the country. We need about 1,500 to support this nation appropriately. Um only 50 of them are black. M um my center. I want the balance of that 1,500 to 850. I want them to come through my center.

1:04:28

Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:30

I want them to come through my center no matter what their creed, religion, race.

1:04:34

I want them to come through my center to become forensic pathologists. I want them to learn the way.

1:04:41

Um and so um so so so um complete with a podcast. I might steal your producer.

1:04:48

Let's go. you know, complete with the news, you know, the whole thing. The whole thing. So, not small at all. Not small at all.

1:04:56

So, understanding that people are are watching this um you know, the type of people that feel maybe feel under underrated um people that feel like someone has told them, hey, you can't.

1:05:08

What would you tell them? Your final thought for people out there um in the in the in the less than 1% universe?

1:05:17

Now wait till they get a load to you.

1:05:19

[laughter]

1:05:21

Wait till they get a load to you. Do the work. Yes.

1:05:26

Grind, practice, be in the lab, be the best. Because when they when they when they turn their eyes on you and they every and it seems like it was such a surprise, you would you know it's never been a surprise cuz you've been doing the work and the people around you is like they've been waiting for you.

1:05:46

Yeah.

1:05:47

Success overnight success is only for the people that weren't there.

1:05:56

I've been coming. We talk about I made it to the less than 1% podcast, but I've been on my way.

1:06:03

It ain't just happened. I ain't just get the phone call. Right. Right. We've been in boardrooms together. Yes. We've been doing deals together. 100%.

1:06:11

You know, moving moving millions of dollars together. Yeah.

1:06:14

Right. So, so you know the people that feel undervalued, boy. Work.

1:06:21

Hard work is hard work is undefeated, man. Work. Grind.

1:06:26

Yeah. you know, and they'll remember your name after the, you know, after it. Yeah.

1:06:31

If that's what it is. But at at the at the end of it, they're going to remember how you made them feel.

1:06:38

They're going to remember how you serve them. And if you're doing it for yourself, then you missed it.

1:06:43

But if you're doing it to serve others, then boy, the whole world is yours.

1:06:49

I've learning I've been learning on this podcast to stay quiet when somebody says something profound. And uh I think that that is that is the mic drop.

1:07:00

We can't drop these things because they cost Jordan a lot of money.

1:07:03

Um but you know I I just want to say man listen many more conversations. Thank you for coming. I know I know you're busy. Y'all don't know how busy. No I don't want him to apologize for nothing and say he's not busy. He is very busy. I'm busy with this.

1:07:17

He's very busy. And I know how hard it is when you're busy. Trust me. I've been there to to dive in and be present and and we appreciate it. So, I know you're going to downplay it, but thank you. Thank you. Roger Mitchell is amazing.

1:07:32

Please go out, digest everything. Roger, Dr. Roger Mitchell Jr. digest everything. Go read his book. You know, look him up on YouTube. Look him podcast, follow him, LinkedIn, president NMA, everywhere. digest what he says because I'm telling you this doctor right here is changing and is will change the world. So appreciate you. Thank you for watching. Thank you brother. We got something for you too.

1:07:56

Yes. Oh shoot. Let me Hey, you got to add this back. Yeah. No back. Well, I have something for you. Okay. Yeah. So I know it's whatever it is. It fits It fits the black.

1:08:07

So we got this. We got a hoodie with everybody.

1:08:10

Here it is. The Wait, hold on. Let me Everybody there. Yeah. Less than 1%. Yeah. It's a good hoodie, too.

1:08:16

Yeah. Yeah. It's that it's that it's that it's that DC. It's that Pima. It's that DC hoodie.

1:08:22

This that real this that real this that real stuff right here. Let's put it up for the camera. Yeah. Let's go. Absolutely. Thank you, man.

1:08:29

I appreciate Oh, it's got the one in the front. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Appreciate you, man. Thank you, brother. All right. Appreciate you.

1:08:38

[music] You been through the fire, but you did not burn. They [singing] didn't know you were forcing the fire.

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