How Russell J. Ledet Went from Hospital Security Guard to Triple-Boarded Psychiatrist

1:26

Welcome to Less Than One Percent. Today I have an

1:27

amazing treat for you. Um, it's another, you know, I I think uh I think I need a

1:33

little bit of uh therapy because I keep stalking people, but uh but I have another uh amazing human being that I

1:40

that that I was hoping to connect with and he was uh you know, he was gracious

1:45

enough to come on less than 1%. But I'm not going to ruin it because I I think there's a lot of we're gonna have a lot

1:52

of information and sound bites. So, welcome to Less than 1% Dr. Yeah.

1:57

RJ the day. Yeah. No, thank you for having me. This um it feels right for where I'm at in

2:04

life right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so we [laughter] we were just jo I mean we were pre-show

2:11

and we'll kind of start there and then maybe go backwards and then a little forward. But you know um one of the things people

2:17

always ask me is moo what is this podcast? I mean like you got a lot of different kinds of people on here and I

2:24

fully think that you know if you look at the way the world is growing but especially where healthcare is going

2:30

you need lots of different people from lots of the different genres that see things in lots of different ways. And we

2:35

were just talking about because you know um I didn't let you know but I went to school in upstate New York. No way. So you up there by Rochester?

2:42

Yeah I went to St. Lawrence University. We played Rochester in basketball. Yeah. Yeah. You was right down the

2:47

street. Yeah. We played Rochester. We played you uh what's the other one? Uh RPI.

2:52

Yeah. Uh RIT. Yeah. What is that? Rochester. Yeah. Rochester Institute of Tech. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We played all of them.

2:59

And I was like I I'm from Toronto and I had never seen snow like that in my life. I was like it's different. The snow is different up there.

3:05

Yeah, it's way different. But you were you were you were you said you were you were doing grand rounds. Yeah, I was doing grand rounds up there

3:10

and and I mean you kind of this is this is this is the heart and soul. This is

3:15

the heart and soul of this podcast. The fact that you were trying to figure out Yeah. just what to wear and who to bring.

3:22

Yeah. I was wrestling which which which Dr. Leay to bring. Right. Yeah. So tell us tell us about that.

3:28

Yeah. Um this this happens all the time and um so I had this big big big big

3:35

lecture to do at University of Rochester. This was my second time that I was invited there as a physician and

3:41

uh you know specifically for me as a psychiatrist Rochester University of Rochester is a big deal because the

3:49

biocschosocial model came out of that institution and so to be invited there

3:54

to give a lecture is a big deal and so I had this internal struggle of which version of Dr. of day do I bring right

4:01

um one part of me was like do I go corporate do I go get a suit do I bring a white tie you know a tie

4:10

you know nice shoes and all that and then the other version of me was like why don't I just bring who I am

4:17

not who I think the people want me to see and so I actually opted for a sweater um that was embroidered by one

4:25

of my close friends uh Crystal Collins who owns a company called Create the culture embroidery and it said uh many

4:32

young kings get their heads cut off and it had this Bosot crown in the middle of it and um before I got up on

4:39

the stage I I had a coat on. I took the coat off right before I went up there and uh I was like, "Look, let me go

4:45

ahead and tell y'all about the sweater now so y'all don't have to ask me all these questions." And I really weaved it in about this idea of what would a

4:53

psychiatric evaluation of me when I was a kid, wow, look like and I I can almost promise you

5:00

it would have said that I was disengaged, that I was disinterested, that I was unmotivated.

5:06

And that wasn't the truth at all. And I was trying to relate to them that many

5:12

young black boys get their heads cut off metaphorically speaking

5:18

because you make assumptions about who they are without understanding what they're really dealing with. And I went on to

5:23

tell them that at the age at which they probably would have done a psychiatric evaluation on me

5:29

because that was when I was the most recluse and really in my head. I was just trying to figure out, man, how can

5:35

I avoid us having to go behind Sam's Club again to dig in a dumpster for dinner?

5:41

Like, how can I help my mom so we don't have to do this? Or how can I help my mom so that we not counting the same

5:47

money over and over and over and hoping that it grow like a seed under the mattress so that we could pay the rent? Like, how? That's where my head was. So,

5:54

I ain't have time to be engaged in all the things that the world had going on or what other kids were playing basketball and all this other stuff. My

6:00

mind was stuck somewhere else. And so I can see how somebody could evaluate me and say, "Oh, that dude is

6:06

disinterested." But in actuality, my mind was just focused on solutions. Yeah. You know, yeah.

6:11

And so that's that, you know, of course there was a dichotomy in that decision, but um now I just I just told him I was

6:18

like, you know what? I'm going just be me, [laughter] man. Like that's all you going to get. This is all you gonna get. Yeah. Well, that's the, you know, I'm

6:24

actually nervous about this particular show because I'm worried about the

6:30

psychiatric evaluation of myself. [laughter] Uh, you know, I definitely I I still think I I still think I have impulse

6:37

control. I know I had impulse control as a as a kid. I was fighting all the time. Oh, yeah. Um, but so listen,

6:43

you know, the one thing that I did when I started the show is to ask you what you want to be called.

6:49

Yeah. because I'm sure that there are situations where people don't believe you. It's like on a plane, any doctors

6:55

on the plane, you're like, "Nah, that actually happened in LA recently." Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so I mean, I'm I

7:01

feel bad because I'm only I'm you know, you have you're triple boarded. [laughter]

7:06

Yeah. It's uh you know, it's funny, man. I was just having this discussion at like 2 a.m. this morning with my my

7:12

cousin. Um, and I told him, I was like, I don't go into rooms trying to convince

7:18

people to believe I am who I am. Right? The only person who needs to believe I am who I am is me.

7:25

Whatever they think, I promise you, it's not going to stop me from doing what I need to do. And so, I it's taken me a long time to

7:32

get to that place of essentially, you know, the let them theory, right? Just just let them just let them let them

7:38

think whatever they want. Let them do whatever they want, whatever. um as long as it doesn't affect my ability to do

7:43

what I want to do and it's taken me a long time to get to this place, man. is taking a lot of but but I would say that

7:50

I mean I'm down for let them cuz she outsold me in my book but you know we

7:55

you know just by a little bit but but but I think though that that it's it's a little I think in healthcare

8:02

especially it's a little deeper than that because I mean I preach and write about the idea of being your 100%

8:08

authentic self but there's nuance to that right because you also don't want to put yourself in a position where you

8:15

can't be in a room to be able to change that room. So, how do you balance that? Yeah. Well, my my thought process is is

8:22

that what's for me is for me. So, you you not going to stop my show.

8:27

That's what you're not going to do. I I've gotten to this place by two things. By my faith and my ability to work hard.

8:33

Yes, sir. That's not going to change. That formula is not going to change. And so, if you were going to stop me, you probably

8:39

should have stopped me long before the momentum got to where it's at now. Now the momentum is such that I'm not I'm

8:45

not really too concerned with the perception of others which is why I think I can embrace the let them theory

8:51

a little bit more. Um, mainly because I know who I am,

8:57

right? And I'm not interested in who other people say I am, right? Um, my work will speak for itself. Um,

9:05

my my ethos will work for itself. Um, my consistency will work for itself and the

9:10

product will come. Yeah. You know, the work I've done with the 15 white coats, um, which I'm sure we'll

9:16

we'll touch on. um the work I've done as a husband. I I'm almost 40 and I've been

9:21

married for 20 years. Yes, sir. You know, so I spent 50% of my lifetime married. You know, I've raised two

9:28

beautiful children. I've become an MD, a PhD, an MBA, a pediatrician, adult psychiatrist, child psychiatrist. I've

9:34

done all the things. I'm not worried about you stopping me. If you was going to stop me, good luck with coming up

9:40

with a formula because a whole lot of people before you try and it never worked. Yeah. So I I have no reason to

9:45

the data would suggest you ain't g it ain't gonna work for you either. Yeah. But tell but tell us though like

9:51

I want to hear one of those stories. Yeah. I want to hear one of those stories where maybe maybe you're on the way on

9:57

the way because you're fully you're so you're fully baked now but on the way when you were baking

10:03

where people tried to stop you tried to put you in that box. Tell me one of those stories.

10:08

Yeah. I mean, I think the one that has stuck with me the most and made me as

10:13

like stubborn as I am now is I I'll set the scene for y'all. I was living in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Um, these were

10:21

my these were my undergrad days. I was at Southern University in&M College. I

10:26

had just gotten off of active duty and I transitioned I had gotten off of active duty in the United States Navy and I had

10:32

transitioned into reserves. Um, and so I went to get a full-time job as a

10:37

security guard. um at this Baton Rouge General Hospital mid city which was like that was the turnup hospital. Think of

10:42

it as like a parkland. Right. Right. Right. Right. It go down right. All the GSWs is coming

10:48

there. Right. Um and so [clears throat and snorts] simultaneously um I was still in the reserves and I

10:55

came into Southern University as a sec with this idea of becoming a social worker. Honestly, I wanted to be like

11:00

Oprah. Like I just wanted to make the food stamps rain, right? I'm not going to lie. That was my mentality was like I'm about to make it

11:07

rain out every is not for you. Everybody getting it cuz we hungry like and and I

11:13

grew up that way, right? I grew up with us so hungry. And so to that point, you know, I transition into chemistry

11:20

and biology after meeting with this this teacher, Miss Chris, who convinced me that I was smart enough to become a scientist.

11:26

And and I'm sign, you know, I'm I'm working in the ED. You know, security guards kind of go wherever they want.

11:31

Hospital. They kind of a little bit everywhere. But I just so happened to have many experiences where

11:36

I was in the ED when a heart attack came in. I was in the ED when a stroke came in. I was in the ED when like multiple

11:42

GSWs came in in a Jeep Cherokee and they open up the doors and bodies just roll out like bowling balls. Like so I saw

11:49

this and I also was the person who transitioned to the trauma bay and watched them take care of all these

11:54

people in these dire situations. And I was like, man, medicine is so intriguing. Maybe I could do this. And

12:00

never in my mind did it cross my head, I can't do this. Yes. And so I asked so many physicians, you

12:07

know, you know how it is. They got that nice parking lot at the front of the hospital that you got the arm that come

12:12

up for the doctors to go and park and then they go up these stairs and go across the ramp and walk into the hospital, right? And the security guard

12:19

is standing there telling everybody, "Hello, good morning, all the things." And I asked, man, hundreds of doctors,

12:24

bro, yo, can I shadow you? And they always gave me some version of

12:31

no bro you a security guard bro like you not bought to become no doctor. I never

12:36

forget man there was this doctor who graduated from Harvard Medical School and Harvard Business School. And I was like yo what medical school did you go

12:42

to? And like what was medical school like and maybe he was in a rush but maybe he also just wasn't interested in

12:48

even listening to what I had to say. And he was like I went to Harvard medical school. I went to Harvard Business

12:53

School and there's no chance of you getting in there. He said that to you straight up. You remember his name?

12:59

I don't remember his name. Yeah. But I remember his face. Yeah. And I remember what he looked like. I

13:05

remember everything. Yeah. And every time they told me no, it was like another it it was like another

13:12

moment for me to be like, "Yeah, I'm about to prove y'all wrong." Yeah. And I think now I've gone too far like

13:17

improve like I don't know. I don't know. Like I mean [laughter] yo I tell I tell a lot of

13:22

people like I I I mean I we you know almost on every show

13:28

everybody that watches any episode knows that I hold grudges.

13:33

Yeah. I hold grudges height too. I remember names, dates. Yeah. You know and I go visit them. I I

13:39

remember and I I I've stopped saying the names because of people like you know don't torture

13:45

you know but but I I I went and visit I got you know I got an award from UC thank you UC University of Cincinnati

13:52

College of Medicine shout out and I I I went to the I went to the professor's office. No way.

13:57

After I got the award and I tried to I tried to find her. Moo. I will tell you this happened though. I never forget um when I was in

14:04

my third year of medical school you know you start doing rotations. Yeah. And I rotated at the exact same

14:10

hospital that I was a security guard. So that's how I on uh on you know NBC Nightly News with

14:16

Lester Holton and stuff because they was I I like posted it cuz that morning it was like 4:00 a.m. and I was on vascular

14:21

surgery. So peep game man I'm on vascular surgery. You know you get in early you're going into the the calf lab

14:28

and you know you going to do all the things. We were sitting in the uh in the O in

14:35

the surgery lounge waiting for a case to start and I came up on the TV.

14:42

I had just finished doing like a news segment maybe like the day before or like that and one of the doctors who told me no

14:50

was in the o he was in the o lounge. Wow. And he was like is that you? And I

14:56

remember getting this moment to be like, "Yeah, you remember security guards don't become doctors."

15:02

He was like, "That was you?" I was like, "Yeah, that was me."

15:08

And um my attendant was like, "Yeah, let's go, man. Don't don't worry about it. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go." Um Yeah, man. And it's crazy because

15:15

like I never took their no personally. Yeah. I was like, "You just you just don't

15:21

know. You missing an opportunity." Yeah. See, I see I'm glad now that I'm on the medication, I'd have been like,

15:26

"Don't you remember me?" [laughter] I would get I'd be scrapping, man. I'm You

15:31

know, I mean, as you get as I get older, that that that softens. But so so

15:39

I I I love what you said about authenticity because I think you're taking to your point, you say you're over the edge.

15:44

Yeah. I think there's authenticity. I know who I am. Yeah. And that's, you know, I write

15:50

about that a lot. But I think that there's a ne next level what you're pointing out, which is I know who I am

15:57

and I know what I need to do or what I want to do or what I'm going to do. Y and I think that the idea

16:04

the idea that um you know what's for you will come to you

16:10

is is is a very difficult one, right? I mean it you know we're we're old men. Yeah. And there's a lot lot of kids or a

16:17

lot of people out there just starting out. It's very hard for them. So, I mean, I I love I mean, your story your

16:24

story is amazing. Obviously, when I stalked you on Instagram, um you I found that out. So, tell me tell me tell me

16:31

how that's translated though into what you're doing now. Yeah, it's crazy that you asked that, man. like um a lot of what I do now, I

16:39

I'll start off with one thing that I I'm doing now that is a function of

16:45

being able to remember what my childhood needed that it didn't have.

16:45‍

Um, I spend my free weekends in

16:58

Columbus, Ohio at the Juvenile Intervention Center, which is for

17:04

uh kids under 18 years old or who have transitioned to 18 years old, but were

17:09

found to uh have cause or there was potential cause for a crime uh before 18

17:16

that are essentially in detention centers until they are We don't call it

17:22

convictions in children. It's called adjudication. And so these these kiddos are pre-adjudication, right? And so I spend

17:29

a lot of time doing group therapy with these kids and it's like cultural

17:35

therapy where we listening to um to uh to like JCole and Kendrick Lamar and the

17:43

game and like and then breaking down real concepts around fear around loving the life you know ain't no

17:51

such thing as a life that's better than yours you know and this idea of AJ McQueen and sit yourself town, you know,

17:59

and and so I've been able to really get these kiddos, man. Some of which are in there for like serious crimes.

18:05

Yeah. To really have a lot more introspection, a lot more reflection, and and an improved self-perception such that it's

18:13

improved their chances of being able to go home. Yeah. And a lot of that comes from me

18:19

remembering my childhood so much so that I can speak to those kids now as if I

18:24

was speaking to myself. Right. Right. Right. like and I got the tools now, right? And so it's a cheat

18:30

code. Yeah. To be able to take all this clinical knowledge, translate it into something

18:35

that the, you know, the brothers can hear. Yeah. And then just be like, "Hey, let's let's have that that, you know, but I think that's, we

18:42

talked about this earlier, right? That's the that's kind of the holy grail of the new medicine. Everybody talks about AI and

18:49

they talk talk about all this stuff, you know, but at the end of the day, remote surgery, AI, you know, all this stuff.

18:56

At the end of the day, I think that we talked about this earlier, knowledge by itself

19:02

is not will no longer be you going to medical school and you just get the knowledge out. You you're not

19:08

going to be a doctor. No. But the ability to take that, right, and and you know, we grew up the same way.

19:14

Hip-hop is my life. I can I can play the anthology of my life through hip-hop.

19:19

And what's interesting is being able to take I mean what what is these double and triple entandras if you can't make them

19:25

turn them into something that makes sense to them, you know, and so I I I love that. And I think I think

19:31

you know, especially especially in psych in psychiatry, especially in child psychiatry.

19:36

Yeah. You know, because I mean they're not I mean we we did an event um in DC, right?

19:43

And we we put on the poster and I told them not to. They put on the holster the on the poster.

19:48

Free mental health evaluations. How many how many people you think we got? Not very none. I told them I said

19:55

nobody wants in that community. They don't want mental health. Now they'll talk to you. Yeah. They'll talk to you. They'll talk to you. And so how do you

20:03

convert what is something that's taboo into something that's real? Yeah. No, to that to that point, man.

20:09

You know, um I've shifted a lot of my content lately. Um a lot of my content

20:15

now talks about essentially going in and navigating the

20:21

mind of parents and carrying the mind of children and

20:27

trying to drop off like nuggets like, "Hey, here's how the dopamine system works. Here's how the prefrontal cortex

20:32

works. Here's how hippocampus works. Here's how the amydala works. here's how all of this works together. Maybe these

20:38

behaviors are are a sign of something much deeper. But in a language, because

20:43

it's language, right? There there's a lot of linguistics involved in thinking about like how do I get this information

20:49

to you in a way that feels like you actually can understand it. And

20:55

I'm not trying to be condescending to you. I'm really trying to teach you so that this child is better equipped and

21:01

you are better equipped because emotional dysregulation on the part of the parent will definitely reflect in

21:07

the child. You going to see it like you you see I literally did my content before I got here about yelling. I asked

21:13

my nephew just the other day. I said, "Bro, how would you feel if your mama yelled

21:19

at you?" He was like, "Weird?" And I was like, "Why?"

21:26

And he was like, "Cuz she never yells at me." And I was like, "That feels safe, don't

21:32

it?" He was like, "Yes, it does." And then I went on to translate and be like,

21:37

"Listen, you got to understand when you yelling at these kids, the first thing they going to do is try to protect

21:42

themselves. That's just what the human body does, right? Yelling at a kid. They not thinking, "Oh yeah, this is a safe

21:48

environment. Somebody's looking out for me right now." They thinking you mad. You might try to harm them. and and most

21:53

of the time you'll see them shut down or they'll lash back out at you. But taking that and being like, listen, I'm not

21:58

trying to crucify you. But I do need you to understand that there's a translation to what you see in your child.

22:03

Yeah. As a function of what you doing. So let so let's let's let's break it all the way down. So let's say and now I

22:10

realize my kids are 22 and 20. I should have done things different. But [laughter] um but we'll we'll talk about

22:16

that. Um, but but let's say you're going to give a piece of advice

22:21

to brand new, brand new family, you know, they got a 2-year-old, two-year-old, right? Like what

22:27

what what's a number one thing that you want them to consider that would

22:35

my my top thing, man, is and it's gonna sound mundane, bro, but it's it's really

22:41

important. Consistently read to your kids.

22:47

Read to your kids in parks. Read to your kids at home. You could even put on

22:52

audiobooks in the car. Like, man, read to your kids regularly, man. And limit their screen time.

22:58

Yeah. Those two things alone, cuz I don't want to give you no big grand like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

23:03

So, dive into that. The limit because, you know, I'm I'm I'm 50/50 on the screen time, right? And I mean I I I

23:10

mean is this I feel like in on one side of it I see the screen time where people

23:15

disappear. They're just in the in a world that doesn't exist and on the other side I I remember my parents

23:22

talking about you know Sesame Street and Electric Company and for me not to watch the TV sure as much. Right. So so so

23:28

explain to me when you say limit the screen time. We're in a world where

23:33

it's all screen time. It has to be. It doesn't have to be. No. I mean I mean in in many ways like

23:39

you and I take care of patients. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. We're on the screen. So So how do you when you say no screen

23:44

time, what are you really saying? Like break it down for us. Here's here's what I'm really telling you, man. I'm I'm going to give you a

23:50

big realization here. This generation of children

23:56

are effectively the first generation of children whose

24:01

parents are also completely captivated by screens. Right. Right. Right. And so the

24:07

reduction in like time on task between an authority figure and a child in a way

24:15

that makes sense for development of the brain. Things like tactile development, things like sensory development. Yeah.

24:21

Things like literacy skills, things like clin uh things like uh decision-m skills. All of these brain development

24:28

things that need to happen, right, are almost pushed to the side as a function

24:34

of let me give you as much immediate reward as possible,

24:40

right? So everything these kids interact with is endless. It's is it's immediate and endless. It's

24:45

endless. There is no like, oh yeah, now you're done. There was a time when TVs went off.

24:51

Yeah. or or even even uh even Mario Brothers or Zelda tried to finish the game.

24:56

Yeah. The game was over. Now the game's getting you could you could play Madden for 60

25:01

hours straight without stopping. Right. And there's no such thing as beating the game. Right. Right. And so when I say limit screen

25:08

time, essentially what I'm saying is is that there are certain skills that you

25:14

absolutely need to institute that a screen cannot institute and will not institute. Plus, you need to be aware of

25:21

what the effects of that screen time. What are they what are they on your child's ability to learn? Your ability

25:27

your child's ability to emotionally regulate. Your child's ability to have impulse control. Your child's ability to

25:33

wait for a reward. Yeah. As opposed to instantly and immediately always needing an immediate reward. And

25:40

as soon as oftent times these kids get a reward, they just want another one. It's funny you say that. Like I think

25:45

that's the most profound definition of some people are just like, "Oh, no screen time." But you're actually taking

25:51

it down to you mean almost the anatomic functional functional anatomic level.

25:57

I'm thinking about prefrontal cortex development even at the earlier stages. Sure. We think about delays and and we

26:02

think about like, okay, these kids prefrontal cortex is still under development during their teenage years, which is why things like logic,

26:08

reasoning, understanding are struggles for them, especially if they're highly emotionally reactive and you can't even

26:14

get them to really, you know, you you got kids when you were yelling at your kids when they were really amped up, they they weren't taking nothing. You

26:21

right. And so I think about these children and I wonder you are conditioned, right? It's

26:28

almost like operant conditioning of all I need is just another thing to please me in the moment,

26:34

right? There's no reason for me to wait for something. And when the real world doesn't provide

26:40

you with that immediate reward, which obviously, as you know, delayed gratification is a component of any

26:45

career. Any career, any career. I don't care if you trying to become the CEO of of of Forbes or you

26:51

trying to become the CEO of I trying to get certified for the for garbage disposal. Yeah. It's going to take a little while,

26:56

right? But the fact that you are in a condition to immediately get a reward means that you have no reason to drive

27:02

long. Yes. You don't want to play the par five. All you want is par threes. Yes. You want the whole course to be par

27:09

threes. Yes. And real life has no there are very few par threes in real life. Yeah.

27:14

Yeah. And and if they do, they're long. They long. We talking [laughter] about 400 yard par threes and you like geez.

27:20

Well, you could at least made it a par, you know, and you at the back of the tea box. Yeah. you know, so you know, it's

27:26

it's it's I think when I think about it, it's like the reason why I tell parents to limit screen time is not because it's

27:32

the cool thing to say. It's because I have seen the effects of too much screen time

27:38

when they get to adolescence where it's a really shaky ground and their

27:43

decision- making is not is not where it should be or not where

27:48

it could be because of all of these, you know, actions that have happened during the most important developmental years

27:54

of their life. You know, I think I think that's a great point. We we also talked pre-show about

27:59

the idea that the the what you're generating, what you've done in in in

28:04

the spaces you've been in are really, you know, the idea of going viral

28:10

for a physician was something that was laughed at. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

‍

28:11

Like I told somebody I told somebody I've I've about

28:16

I've had about four viral posts. I've had one that's been really viral like like really viral.

28:23

Like I woke up the next morning I was like phone day. I was like, "How much money do I get from this?" [laughter] Even

28:28

though, you know, I ain't get no money, but you know what I'm saying? But, but uh I told somebody I said, "Hey, you know, my my post went viral."

28:35

And they were like, "Are you are you six?" Like, that was their response. Wow.

28:40

Because, [clears throat] you know, I think what happens is is that people don't understand the future of

28:46

healthcare, the future of any business, frankly. Yeah. Is going to be about how many people you

28:51

can influence. It used to be that you got up on a, you know, on a pulpit or you got up on a stage or you got up on a

28:57

television station or you waited until you were on Johnny Carson, you know, or something like that. But now you have anybody and everybody's

29:04

like vilify social media. A lot of people do that and there are some definitely for psychiatric reasons.

29:11

There are some terrible things that are going on there. But but it's almost like

29:16

the ultimate freedom of speech because anybody Yeah. if you have something reasonable and productive and and

29:23

supportive to say Yeah. people will gravitate towards it and they they will latch on. Yeah. And you talked about that cuz you

29:30

you said you you recently had some posts where you know like you don't have you have a huge following but you don't have

29:36

one of these mega followings and you were like yo like people are asking you. Yeah. They're like, [laughter] "Hey, can

29:42

you can you can you come and see about my kid? Can you come and do this? Can you do that?" Which which, you know,

29:48

simultaneously is appealing, but also tells me there is a profound need.

29:53

Yeah. Right. Especially in this space where I mean, you know, teenage years are tough.

30:02

Teenage years are profoundly tough. Um, parents are pulling that straws to figure out what to do.

30:08

Yeah. Um, and many parents feel helpless. And to your point about communicating to

30:14

an audience in a way that will cause them to listen to you and to take you as a a trusted and credible, you know,

30:22

source of knowledge. Um, you have to be able to communicate in a way that not

30:28

only feels real, but translates into real product at home. So, I have so many parents who will message me or they'll

30:36

even comment under the post and say, "Yo, I tried exactly what you said and it worked out exactly how you said it."

30:42

That's awesome. And that that is the greatest illustration that you on the right path.

30:49

Yeah. You know, that you're doing the right thing, that you're in the right vein, that you moving in the right way. And and I can honestly say that um I give a

30:58

lot of credit to my grandmother all the time. My grandmother grew up in the deep

31:03

south. She grew up in Bro Bridge, Louisiana. Um on a sugarcane field and

31:09

she she couldn't read and she really couldn't write either. She used to like use a X to sign her name on her checks

31:15

and stuff. But my grandmother probably had as much wisdom as a Bible man. Just was like this woman who could like

31:22

teach you about life's trials before they even came. Right. Right.

31:28

In a way that never felt demeaning. Right. And to that point, she always would tell me like,

31:34

"You just need to learn how to treat God's people right." As simple as that comment was, I don't

31:40

think I really understood it until I got to medical school. And it was time for

31:47

me to make a decision in terms of like what am I going to do? I have a PhD in molecular oncology and tumorology from

31:55

what was at the time the number one medical school in the country. I've published gotten grants from Howard

32:00

Hughes Medical Institute and the National Institutes of Health and Ford foundation and every expectation is yeah he's going to be a radiation oncologist

32:07

and I go to this federally qualified health center and I visit with this

32:12

young black boy from New Orleans and before he leaves this psychiatric visit

32:19

he says, "Can you be my doctor? Can you be my doctor?" And I was just I

32:27

was a first year medical student in that at that time and I was just like with and attending just kind of shadowing in some way to

32:34

see like what's this child psychiatry thing about and to that point um I think when I

32:40

think about whether it's my content and the way that I communicate with my audience or I'm sitting in front of a

32:45

patient and we having conversations it is almost always this idea of

32:53

if you were my child how would I treat you? Yeah. Yeah. You know, if you if you were my parent,

32:59

you know, if you were a parent of mine, then like how would I treat you? And and and part of that, I think, is

33:04

communicating in a way that it's not like all fluffy and all this other stuff, but talking in a way that almost

33:10

feels like it's family talking to you. Yeah. Yes. I'm a physician, a highly trained physician. Yes. You got the you got the

33:15

credentials. Yes, I got the credentials, but it needs to feel like, man, it's my cousin talking. Like, I want them to pull us up

33:21

at the dinner table and be like, "No, look look what cousin R.J." said, "No, cousin R.J. He said, "This is how we should settle an argument at home

33:27

between our family, right? Because this makes sense." And he come from where I come from.

33:32

So, he's been through what we've been through and it's telling us there's a better way.

‍

33:37

So, so what do you what would you

33:42

I'm I'm fascinated and want to get dive into what you tell parents and what you tell

33:48

kids. Yeah. Um but I'll get back to that. I want to know ultimately where do you feel like

33:55

you're where do you want to have impact? I mean I know we're gonna talk a little bit about the

34:00

15 white coats and all that stuff, but but where where do you want to have impact? Like where's I I can tell you

34:05

exactly where I want to have impact. So, and this is probably my first time saying this publicly. Um so I hope

34:12

nobody don't steal my idea. It is what it is. Um but you let you let them know. You let

34:18

them know. Let them know. Don't steal my idea. Don't steal my [laughter] idea. I might have a trademark pending right now. Um,

34:24

you gonna get in big trouble. [laughter] Um, but I am convinced that we can

34:31

leverage specifically gaming technology in a way to

34:37

get kids to have what I think are like the top five

34:43

skills you should have to prepare for adulthood. The first one is I need kids

34:49

to have a life safety plan. Meaning like who are the authorities

34:55

that you reach out when you're not sure that your own thinking is on solid ground?

35:02

What do you do when stressful moments come? How do you respond to those stressful moments? Like this is all part

35:08

of the safety plan, right? um who are the who what is your circle of

35:14

professional people that you can reach out to to say yo let's let's collectively make a decision

35:19

such that I can move this boulder forward as opposed to an independent decision because if you want to go fast you go alone if you want to go far you

35:26

go together so there's that part right in in this terms of this life safety planning and then the second part I want

35:33

the game to do is to give them coping skills right because tough moments are coming whether

35:38

you like it or not You don't even have to know whether or not the stove is hot. You gonna find out the stove is hot.

35:44

Even intentionally or unintentionally, you gonna find out the stove is hot. I found out, right? And so, how do you

35:51

respond to that? How do you respond to that individually? How do you respond to that when you're

35:56

in groups? How do you respond to that in the moment? And how do you come back and

36:01

revisit that in a healthy way? Because when you're emotionally reactive and activated, that's probably not the best

36:08

time for you to process it. So, how can you in a healthy way go back to that that situation that was quite stressful

36:15

and process it in a way that's that's meaningful? And can you do that individually or do you need to go with somebody? And it's not always therapy.

36:22

Sometimes it's having a solid person who can listen and who can help you to come to a conclusion that makes sense for

36:28

you. Right? So, that that's the coping skills part. The third part is emotional regulation

36:33

because so often kids, young people during these extremely critical periods

36:40

of their life, right? The we talking about the college days, the high school days that will have a longlasting effect

36:48

on the rest of your life because this is the period where you had the most energy. This is the period where your brain is moving the fastest, right?

36:54

Everything's the sharpest. Um, do you have emotional regulation such that you

37:00

don't make all of these rash decisions based on do I feel extremely sad, do I

37:06

feel extremely happy, do I feel extremely angry? Um, can you have sort of like a um a

37:13

medium that you operate in such that the decisions you make make sense? Yeah. And if not, are there some people who

37:20

can help you to calm down? The other two parts of this game I I think will be extremely impactful are impulse control,

37:26

which is obvious, right? Like that that that that's ridiculously obvious. And the last part is is quality

37:32

communication with authorities. That's huge. Yeah. It's like the massive that that is

37:38

that one, Doug. Like I mean the first four were profound. Yeah. But that fifth one

37:43

Yeah. It's like cuz then mentorship makes sense. Yes. And in the early years of your life, you don't need sponsorship as much

37:50

as you need somebody to to mentor you. I was even thinking like all the way down to sort of even interactions with

37:58

police. Yeah. Teachers. Yeah. Professors like at the end of the day your parents.

38:04

Yeah. Parents. Your parents. So, so you got a kid. I'm gonna we're gonna we're gonna I'm gonna ask you a

38:11

board question, but we're going to do a we're going to do a mock a mock mock board here. [laughter]

38:16

So, you have a kid and I'm and I'm trying to I'm trying to capture what people would be worried about in their

38:23

mind. So, you have a kid that um is like me growing up, defiant, you

38:29

know, obviously smart and you know, can can do some great things, but defiant, you know, doesn't want to

38:36

listen to parents. Getting that, you know, maybe maybe maybe pre-teenish. Sure. you know,

38:42

starting to starting to get that little testosterone or that little estrogen pump and they're feeling a certain way.

38:48

Yeah. Um, what would you say to parents in that situation to help them cope with

38:54

that sort of pre-teen, teen, like you don't you don't know how hard it is for me. You're not, you know, you don't

39:01

know, you know, how what would you say to them? Yeah. First things first, um, take a beat.

39:07

Don't take what your kid is saying and doing right now personally. And even if

39:13

you are going to take it personally, don't take it personally in front of them. Cuz what they need to see is a measured,

39:20

tempered response. What they're expecting is an extremely riled up response.

39:27

They're searching for that, but they can't learn in that moment. They can't learn in a moment where you

39:32

turn up because they said something that hit you the wrong way. M cuz now you need to go process your own

39:39

stuff. Don't give them that. Don't that's not for them to hold cuz what they dealing with is not what you

39:45

dealing. Y'all dealing with two different things. You may be dealing with a hurt from hearing somebody else say that to you previously, whatever.

39:50

Blah blah blah blah. So deal with that. Take a beat. Breathe. Don't yell. If you yell, they not

39:56

listening. Listen. If you escalate, they not gonna listen. The moment you

40:01

escalate, it's over. That's it. That's a wrap. So that's the first part. The second part is, and actually I have to

40:08

shout out my brother um Raymond Powell, man. Raymond Powell, he and I were at um

40:16

the Reform. Reform invited us to the Indianapolis track, the Speedway. Yeah.

40:21

For um this is right before the Indie uh 500. We were there for like some of the preliminary rounds. And I met this

40:28

brother there. Um remarkable story, man. He got a remarkable story. Um, and and

40:34

I'll let him tell his story, but it's just it's absolutely remarkable what he's been through and how he's he's just

40:39

so reflective. So, I I rely on him often. But he asked me the similar question that you just asked. He was

40:45

like, "Man, what do you do?" And I told him, I said, "Man, take that kid for a walk, man."

40:51

I said, "Take that kid for a walk, man. Don't say nothing. Just take him for a walk." And he'll at some point that kid

40:59

will talk to you, right, about the things that are at the top of their mind. And

41:06

your job in that moment is not to give them a lecture, right? Your job in that moment is not to be the

41:13

encyclopedia for them and to give them the answer. Your job in that moment is to listen to their experience. Let them

41:20

tell their story of what they are going through right now. I I mean that's and and that's so hard

41:27

to do. So why would you say it's hard to do though? It is hard to do. And and I'm going to say I'm going to ask you a

41:33

question to explain why I think it's hard to do.

‍

‍

41:39

If you we are the product of I wouldn't I I think that parenting has

41:46

evolved over the years of course and as I get older what I realize is that everybody's doing their best.

41:51

Yeah. Now with whatever capacity they have or don't have, right? They they did listen.

41:56

No, we not always doing our best. Well, you I guess what I'm saying I guess what I'm saying is is that we're not doing the

42:02

best. Yeah. But we are doing but we're doing with all of our weird idiosyncrasies and you know and and

42:08

there listen let's let's talk about you know fortunately not my challenge but there are parents with substance abuse

42:14

there are parents with psychiatric disorders there are parents that have been abused right so so they're dealing with their their their drama and they

42:20

can't so I guess what I want to the reason I said it's hard if I look at

42:27

you no Dr. day murm amazing. I use the term murderer which is not the best to

42:33

use in healthcare but you know what I'm saying. You're you're a killer. You're amazing. Yeah. I didn't I didn't did it. You're amazing. Right. And I look at

42:42

You didn't have the expertise that you have now as a parent. Your parents

42:47

didn't have that. I My parents did their best, but they didn't have the expertise that you have.

42:52

Yeah. And you came out amazing. Yeah. What would you say to somebody that says, "Hey, listen. You gotta be through

42:59

the fire. You gotta be, you know, you gotta go through this thing. I came out this way.

43:04

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Because because in some ways it almost feels hypocritical, right? It's like,

43:09

yeah, bro, did you not just tell us you was digging in dumpsters? Yeah. It sounds like if we take that route,

43:15

we become you. Nah, but what I didn't tell you was all the stuff that I struggle with. Yeah. I'm I'm about to tell you something,

43:22

man. Um, I was supposed to get here yesterday at like 1:30.

43:29

I intentionally was going to take an earlier flight. I was going to take an 11:40 flight, right? I get to the

43:35

airport. I took an Uber from my house. I get to the airport and I forget my wallet at home.

43:41

So, my wife brings my wallet and I still got 19 minutes before they close the doors. So, I get up to TSA Pre-Check. My

43:49

my bad says TSA Pre-Check everything. They're like, "Nope, you regular." Oh, man. So, I go to the regular line. But here's

43:56

here's here's why I say that there's a better way to raise your children. And

44:02

this is some of the issues that come with the route that I had to take to get here.

44:10

There were only about 13 people in front of me in the regular line of TSA.

44:17

Did you know that I was too afraid to ask those 13 people if it was okay for me to go ahead of them to get that

44:24

flight and get on there? So, I missed the flight and I didn't get here until 4:20. Yeah.

44:29

And to that and and and it's and it's and I'm doing this on purpose to be vulnerable enough to say, "Yes, it looks

44:35

like I'm invincible, but I got my own things that I'm struggling with as a function of

44:41

taking such a terrible route that I struggle to ask for help.

44:47

Even as accomplished as I am, I will work 30 hours alone

44:52

before I ask somebody to cut it down to 12 hours. Yeah. Right. And and and I'mma do it like it's

44:59

going to get done and it's going to be great and I'mma get here on time and I'mma be here for the I'mma do all the things. But there's a jam there's a

45:06

damage there because I gota I could have got here at two. I could have got to my hotel early. I could have had two hours

45:12

of peaceful time. Yeah. Right. I could have won something in that situation. Yeah. But I even forewent what I could have

45:19

won in the name of No, I'm not asking for help. Mainly because and I'm I'm

45:25

being very vulnerable right now because I know how I look to the world

45:31

and unless you know who I am and I'm like, "Yo, man, I only got 10 minutes to

45:36

get." And they like, "Man, this dude, bro, he look like a drug dealer, man. We ain't letting them pass us up.

45:43

And honestly, all those people in front of me probably could have been like, "Yeah, man. Go ahead. Go ahead." You know what's so interesting? By the

45:49

way, you won the argument. Um, but you know, I'm just saying just for the

45:55

record, for the record, I'm I'm not rebuting I'm not coming back with a rebuttal. [laughter]

46:00

But, um, what you know, it's it's very interesting what you say there, which is

46:06

I think that it's coming from a generation of Yes. I think that I pride myself

46:14

as an immigrant of immigrants of of not needing anybody or anything and working. I don't

46:21

like to this day I literally can sleep three hours function and still get it and go get it.

46:27

Yeah. But I think you're what you say is right. The consequences, the unknown consequence, the the hidden

46:33

consequences. And I think, you know, the other thing that you and I also talked about pre-show is the idea that

46:39

you're you're coming on less than 1%. Yeah. You know, you need me for something. I'm coming to do that thing with you.

46:45

Right. That that the idea of saying, "Hey, hey, R.J.,

46:51

you're doing amazing things in the in the in the industry. Can you come?" Right? Like that's a vulner very vulner and and I think in in

46:58

in my own therapy here my own vulnerability is it's actually terrible. It's actually

47:06

a terrible thing. It's horri right to go to somebody and say I didn't

47:12

leave with enough time. Yeah. I made a mistake. Yeah. And I want you to inconvenience yourself

47:20

to help me. Yeah. That's I mean and so so you won you won you know.

47:26

No it's uh you know I've I've heard a lot of people be like yo like why are you they they said that a lot of my

47:33

content was soft parenting and I said no it's not soft parenting. I'm I'm able to

47:39

simultaneously be there for a lot of parents and a lot of kids while also doing the work of what I could imagine a

47:48

healed childhood for myself would have. And that is so important. Obviously um

47:57

there um are a lot of things that you can look at in adulthood and tie it back

48:03

to something that was you know an experience of your childhood or tied to your childhood or whatever. And there

48:08

are a lot of theories behind that. But I think even in this moment, man, like oftentimes people will see like all the

48:15

accomplishments and all the things that I've done and, you know, how I've gotten to this place and be like, "Man, he's

48:20

invincible." No, I'm absolutely not invincible. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm I'm working on my my

48:26

autobiography right now and the working title is The Tears I Cried

48:31

in My Wife's Lap because the world couldn't afford to see my tears.

48:38

Right. Like the one moment they did when I matched in res black man moment. I saw that.

48:44

They were like, "Oh my god, you posted, you just posted that." Yeah. And meanwhile, my wife was like, "Yeah,

48:49

y'all. If y'all think this is something, imagine being in the house with him.

48:55

You think all the stuff that he's accomplished, it looked great. It's amazing." And it is. It's absolutely amazing. It's it's it's less

49:01

than 1%. 100%. Everything I've done to this point is less than 1%. No doubt

49:06

about it. Yeah. But the the cost Yeah. the cost that the world cannot afford to

49:12

see for a lot of different reasons. And we I mean I mean I I think and I I

49:17

don't think I'm unique in this way but that moment that moment where you cry

49:23

Yeah. either from something so amazing that you you believed it could happen but then it's coming to fruition.

49:29

Yeah. Or the other cry is that that sheer anger, you know, of proving

49:34

yourself after proving yourself after proving yourself. And I think, you know, my generation and

49:41

maybe others, maybe other generations, too. I'm mad at myself because sometimes you're in that moment

49:48

where you cry. I was in this I was in this how dare I be vulnerable. I was in this this this office doing a presentation,

49:58

you know, about less than 1% and yeah, be your authentic self and, you know, talking about the, you know, disparities

50:03

in healthcare and all this other stuff and and somebody popped a question. I said, "Okay, you know, I'm in I'm in I'm

50:11

rap I'm rapping. Listen, I was a rapper till I was 16. I'm ready to go. Let's go." You know, play the beat. Give me

50:17

the beat. Let's go. And somebody said something about my kids

50:22

and I went I was in I was in I was in game phase. I was in game phase and I tried to answer nothing came out

50:30

and tears started falling and instantly I was angry

50:35

at myself right instantly. And everybody, you know, then everybody's like, "You got it. You got

50:42

it. You got it." But the idea is I I'm mad because I don't want people to see that beside me. I

50:47

don't want people to see that part of me. I think that's a lot of and you know a lot of the mental health issues that that a lot of

50:53

us have in our life have to do with I think restricting

‍

51:03

Yeah. a lot of that in you know that

51:00

that stuff 100% man even when you think about the I'm proud of you black man moment when I matched right in that moment people ask

51:08

me all the time like like what what happened like how did how did that moment come to be and what was happening

51:14

man I think that night I didn't sleep I ain't sleep I have no idea where I was

51:20

going there was a part of me that was like I might end up at NYU again right

51:26

I might end up back at two lane I might or the brown, right? I don't I don't know what I'm going to do. But

51:32

um then I thought about that little black boy.

51:38

Yeah. Sitting on that blue plastic chair with the concrete under him with a couple

51:44

cracks in it because the roots were growing up under it. And I was like,

51:50

"Yo, you got your child psychiatrist." Yeah. Yeah. You got him. You got him. And not only

51:55

did you get him, he's the first black man to ever do it at Indiana University.

52:01

So, let me let me let me dig in. I want to ask I want to ask that question. We talked about that question I want to ask you because I it

52:07

I have an idea of how you might answer, but I don't want to speak for you. But before we get there, I want to ask you this because

52:15

there are going to be people in this day and age, in this time, right? Like I mean, I I tell everybody

52:22

I I'm Canadian, by the I'm an American citizen now. Just let let [laughter] before y'all before y'all send anybody

52:28

needed to say that. Before y'all send anybody out here, [laughter] Jamaican descent, immigrated from Canada, it's all good, right? I'm

52:34

all good. I got I got my stuff. I got my stuff right here. I don't want anyone knocking on that. We don't We don't need that.

52:39

I got my stuff right here. So, but but I I you said something that I think needs some explanation because

52:47

match day is profound. No matter who you are, even if you're even if you're [clears throat] the I don't know if

52:53

you're 18 generations of doctor, they're they're just as pumped or excited or sad

52:59

or nervous or an anxious as anybody else. But specifically in that post when I

53:04

watched it, you know, along with the 76 million other people [laughter] that that watch it, like

53:11

why black man? What is that? Like I think we I think that needs some explanation cuz I think people there's

53:18

people sort of say, "Hey Moo, you know, you know, hey R.J. man." Like I get it. It's a it's an emotional day,

53:24

but why you got what what is that about? Yeah. I'm I'mma tell you the the unadulterated truth of why it was black

53:31

men, bro. Cuz that was the hardest thing for me to say out loud.

53:38

It was so hard to say to myself,

53:44

"Yeah, you did something worth clapping about." I I didn't think the military

53:51

deployments were enough. I didn't think the college graduations were enough. I

53:57

didn't think being a present father was enough. I didn't think being a present

54:02

dad was enough. I didn't think the PhD at NYU was enough. I didn't think the NBA was enough,

54:10

but matching into that triple board residency was enough because what it

54:15

meant was the thing I had worried about

54:22

for effectively at that time 16 years was how am I going to not have to

54:30

scratch and claw for the rest of my life to take care of my family And

54:36

my mom raised me as a single mom. And I

54:42

wanted to be that man. I wanted to be that man for my family. Like I wanted my

54:48

wife to have that. I wanted my children to have that. And in that moment to be

54:53

able to say, "I'm proud of you black men for doing something that

55:00

you have personally never experienced was it was for me. It was for me to tell

55:07

me you got a reason to be proud of yourself now. All these other things you did, yeah, they were all right. But this one

55:14

right here, you can build generational wealth now, right? you you you have permission to

55:19

build generational wealth now as a function of this I'm proud of you black man moment not to mention

55:25

I also had to say to myself job well done that you didn't quit there was so many

55:32

moments along I'll never forget this bro I got to tell this story man it was October of 2013

55:41

I had just graduated college and I was in my first year of my PhD program and it was snowing bro I was in New York

55:47

City snowing and I came out of the lab on 33rd Street in Manhattan.

55:53

Had to take the M34 all the way up to Herald Square and then get on the PATH

55:58

train to go back to New Jersey and then take a bus from the PATH train to

56:04

Journal Square because the the bus before that was was not. And so I got off at um the Jersey City stop and had

56:11

to walk like a mile and a half to pick up my daughter in a stroller in the snow. In the snow. And then we had to walk in

56:18

the snow to Journal Square to catch a bus home. Yeah. And I remember us walking in that snow,

56:24

man. My daughter freezing and the the stroller getting stuck.

56:30

Yeah. And I was like, "What in the hell are you doing? what are you doing? You don't

56:38

need to do all this like this. You don't have this does not life does not have to be this hard.

56:45

Um I got home and my wife I don't even know why she did it. She just gave me a

56:50

big hug. She said, "Hey, I'm glad y'all home. What's up? What we eating for dinner?" I cooked some turkey chili. We

56:56

had dinner. We watched Scandal because this is when Scandal was coming. And uh

57:01

and we went to bed, man. And I never forget that moment because

57:06

that moment allowed me to get to the I'm proud of you black man moment. Yeah. Making it through that moment when I was

57:12

like, "What the hell are you doing, bro? You done brought your whole family on this on this journey that that on

57:19

this journey that I mean, and that we don't even know if it's going to work out." That's I was going to say that, but I I didn't want to. Right.

57:25

Yeah. We don't know if it's going to work out, bro. Cuz my my wife would have asked me, I never forget, we was passing through the Holland Tunnel. We used to go to uh

57:31

Brooklyn Tabernacle Church on Sundays. Yeah. So, we would drive from Jersey City to Brooklyn, go to church, get a

57:36

slice of pizza, and then take the Holland Tunnel back home, right? We were getting ready to go through the Holland Tunnel. My wife was working in finance.

57:42

She was working at Chase. And uh she looked at me and she said, "Honey, what are you going to do with your

57:48

life?" She said, "Every turn you got a new career idea." Yeah.

57:53

So, like, what are you going to do with your life? And and I was like, I don't think you understand. I'm getting a PhD

57:59

from the number one medical school in the country. Blah blah blah blah. She's like, "No, no, no. Like, what are you going to do?" And I was like, "I want to be a

58:05

physician scientist." That's amazing. And she was like, "Thank you." So now I

58:10

can tell my colleagues what you [laughter] can. Nice. And that was important because in that

58:17

moment, she didn't say, "Can you do that?" No, she already knew. She said, "Thank you for giving me

58:23

clarity." Yeah. Right. And we could get through the moment. And now I look back and I'm like, man, that lady had I don't

58:31

know why she had so much belief in me. But if you look at that I'm proud of you, black man moment. She's the one who

58:37

didn't flinch. Yeah. Cuz she and she said it. We we started having this little dialogue called the

58:43

other side of the stethoscope. And I asked her, "Did you ever want me to quit?" She was like, "No." She's like, "Cuz I always knew that our family had

58:49

what it took to get here." So that that brings me up to um

58:55

you know the idea that others see things in us that we may or may not see in our

59:00

in ourselves. And you know like I [snorts] guess my regret is uh I went

59:08

fishing last night. I went fishing last night. I actually caught four fish last night. It was it was a good size. Like I

59:13

was like yo they're waking up now. It's not you know it's it's warm with y'all. And I regret not calling you and saying,

59:19

"Hey, listen, man. You should have just let's just do dinner." I didn't know what time you're coming cuz I mean, I could I could sit

59:25

here for probably like 10 hours and just, you know, Yeah. Uh because I think at some level like

59:30

it's it's not just and I say this all the time um with true earlier today.

59:37

It's not just uh you getting a story out there. Yeah. For me, I think this somewhat is is

59:44

therapeutic. I think everybody I think everybody I think everybody feels one thing about

59:49

the book that I noticed I didn't notice when I wrote it everybody feels like they're less than 1%. Yeah.

59:55

Everybody feels underrated and at some level they are. Yeah. But but I think with your wife

1:00:00

identifying something in you that you may or may not have seen in yourself or you were scared to kind of let it out.

‍

1:00:01

But but I think with your wife

1:00:00

identifying something in you that you may or may not have seen in yourself or you were scared to kind of let it out.

1:00:06

Sure. So that leads me to this segment which is I get to ask you a question. Oh.

1:00:12

And then we take that question. Yeah. And ask it to somebody else. And so the question is, and it sounds a little

1:00:20

corny because I've asked it so many times to so many different people. Sure. Um, but I want to know what your

1:00:26

superpower is. Um, I'm going to tell you what my superpower is, man. And and I'm I can

1:00:32

almost promise you my wife is going to say the same thing. [laughter] Um, when I was like 18, 19 years old,

1:00:39

man, my wife said something to me that it shaped the rest of my life,

1:00:45

she said, "You do not surprise me when you succeed.

1:00:51

You surprise me when you fail. So try your best not to surprise me,

1:00:57

hey man." Yeah. And so I can honestly say I have

1:01:04

spent my lifetime just trying not to surprise my wife. Wow. She has opened every last board score.

1:01:11

I have never opened up a board score or a grade or whatever. She always is the

1:01:16

per that conduit who tells like Yeah. Yeah. You passed, you didn't pass, whatever. Yeah. Um

1:01:22

and almost always, bro, she's the person who doesn't flinch. As a matter of fact, to

1:01:28

that point, man, my wife has never called me doctor. Yeah. Never. Yeah. She She like

1:01:34

to me you just rustle. Like [laughter] she like she like for sure you are

1:01:40

extremely talented. She like but one thing is I'mma keep you humble. She like

1:01:46

but in front of everybody else I know she gonna Yeah. She like oh yeah that's Russell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:01:51

Okay. So you're saying your superpower is to not make my wife disappoint in me. to not surprise me.

1:01:57

Wow. But that's so that that's layered. It's I like that. Yeah. So you So So

1:02:05

and that's my life partner. That's the person who I I have honestly committed my life to

1:02:11

being with this person and doing life with her. And so it's I'm okay with having this

1:02:18

external motivation of saying like, "Yeah, I'm not I'm not about to disappoint you. like I'm not to surprise

1:02:24

you because I think she's earned she's earned that much.

1:02:29

I am who I am as a function of her being like, "Yeah, let's take this ride." This is this is unique. We've we've not

1:02:35

we've not This is a first. I don't think that we've had anybody who's sort of identified an external

1:02:43

superpower. Everybody's sort of like, "Hey, I'm this. I'm that. I'm the this." I'm not stupid, man. [laughter]

1:02:48

We're gonna call Are you gonna call? Yeah. Yeah, we about call her. Hello. Hey, honey.

1:02:54

Hey. What's up? Nothing. Here. Get my hair done. How are you doing?

1:03:00

I'm good. So, I'mma go ahead and prepare you now. I'm on this podcast. Um, I need your

1:03:06

answer to be right. Okay. The answer can't be wrong. Uh, I'm I'm on here with

1:03:11

Dr. uh Moo. You want to tell them hello? Hi. How are you? Hi. How you doing?

1:03:17

Good. And you? Good. I hope your ears were burning cuz uh this man is absolutely in love with you. So, uh so you know um but you I

1:03:27

just sorry to take your time. I know you're busy but we ask him a question uh and then we

1:03:33

want to verify the answer to that question by asking you. And so uh I'd like to know what do you

1:03:41

believe his superpower is?

1:03:47

What is Russell's superpower? Yes. Yes.

1:03:56

What is Russell's superpower, his ability not to quit, his tenacity

1:04:04

and his just care for everyone and everything truly. I would say that's his

1:04:09

superpower. Awesome. Nobody can do it better than him in that area. Wow. Do

1:04:15

do you want to tell her what you said? Yeah. They asked me what my superpower was and I told them, you know what I

1:04:21

always say about you? I was like, "Yeah, my wife told me a long time ago, um, you do not surprise me when you succeed. You

1:04:27

surprise me when you fail. So try your best not to surprise me." That is that is absolutely true.

1:04:33

[laughter] And that still stands true to this day.

1:04:39

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Thank you, honey. I love you. I love you. Thank you so much.

1:04:44

Talk my YouTube. Byebye. That's funny, man. That's awesome.

1:04:50

That's funny, man. That's awesome. That's great, man. That's great. Yeah. 20 years, man. We for 20 years,

1:04:57

man. We We've been dating since we were 17 years old. That's amazing. Yeah.

1:05:02

Yeah. And I And I see the impact she's had on you. Yeah. It's been um Yeah. It's crazy

1:05:09

to have somebody by your side who believes in you more than you believe in yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

1:05:15

So that even if your belief in yourself dips a little bit, you're still good. Yeah. They treat you as if like

1:05:21

Yeah. Like that that belief part like we ain't even compensating for that. Like Yeah. Just keep on going. How old are you kids?

1:05:27

15 and eight. Okay. Yeah. So I got I got the adolescence thing going and I got the pre-adolescence thing

1:05:33

going on. Right. And so, um, yeah, that's that's kind of why I'm in the thick of it. And and but it's it's I'm

1:05:40

enjoying it, man. Cuz as much as I'm trying to teach my daughters, um, they're teaching me.

1:05:46

Yeah. No, 100%. I mean, that's I mean, my journey I I write about both kids,

1:05:53

um, but you know, my son had a seizure disorder when he was real young and, uh,

1:05:59

that year that year changed me. I mean, if you if you saw the parent, you know,

1:06:05

in your role, if you saw the parent pre that yearong and post, totally different dude. Like,

1:06:10

yeah. You know, my kids were supposed to be in my mind better versions of me. Yeah.

1:06:15

And what I realized it's not I that it's not cuz I wanted the best for them,

1:06:23

right? Which is like not what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be they

1:06:28

should be the best of what they want to be. Y and uh it you know so it's a it's a

1:06:34

correction that uh that happened through through uh through arduous an arduous

1:06:39

situation [clears throat] challenges but but it's good. I mean I'm I mean I'm proud of them you know I think uh

1:06:45

they're both they're both amazing kids. Yeah. Yeah. So so I'd like to um

1:06:52

you know if you know so you're in this thing now you're in like you said you're

1:06:58

in the thick of it. Mhm. I mean, I I don't want to say you're at the height because I think you have much farther to go,

1:07:03

but you're you know, you you're getting up there. You're in the you know, you still you almost it's the Wi-Fi about to

1:07:09

turn on. You know, you almost at the Wi-Fi at that level.

‍

1:07:16

And so,

1:07:15

but let's say, you know, 5 10 whatever that time period, the future, whatever you want to identify as that future,

1:07:21

what would you look to and say that's where that's what I'm thinking about? Because you had a vision. Yeah.

1:07:27

For this triple board. Sure. You know, child psychiatrist, but what's that next thing?

1:07:33

Yeah. Getting this video game in the hands of teens, man, and children, bro. I really

1:07:39

I'm really worried [snorts] at how many young people are attempting

1:07:46

to take themselves out of this world. Yeah, that's that's a real and and I think the

1:07:53

way I like to think about it is with what God has given me as my talents and my expertise and what I can do,

1:08:01

what would make my ancestors proud. Yeah. What can I do that my ancestors would look back on and say, "Okay,

1:08:08

during his time here on Earth, he moved the needle just like we did,

1:08:14

just like the the Rosa Parks of the world and the and the Nat Turners of the world and the and

1:08:19

the the Justice Marshals of the world, right? Like, did he move the needle with what with what he had capacity for?"

1:08:26

And if the answer to that is yes, then I'm I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. And and if I move the needle on

1:08:33

on uh childhood suicidality and just like

1:08:39

real meaningful accessibility to mental health care, then I've done my job. And I'm not just

1:08:46

talking about for the free kids. Right. Right. I'm also talking about for the incarcerated kids,

1:08:52

right? Who eventually will be free. I don't I I

1:08:57

don't want there to be a barrier between them and this Ferrari they got up here. Right. Right.

1:09:03

Because the way I think about it is like, yo, this a Ferrari. You just got to make sure you park it in the right

1:09:08

neighborhood. Yeah. And you take care of it and you spruce it up. And if nobody teaches you how to do all

1:09:15

those things, then this joint could end up in a landfill. Right. Right. And my job is to prevent you from ending

1:09:22

up in a landfill or burn out the engine. burn out the engine or don't change the oil.

1:09:27

Yeah. Or don't know how to not rev it up when it's not doing well.

1:09:33

Like if I if I don't do that, then I haven't done my job. And so if if that is what my career lands as

1:09:39

the thing that I have been able to accomplish before the Lord called me home, then I'm cool with it. Yeah. Yeah.

1:09:45

You mentioned the 15 white coats. I want you to get back to that because we I cut you off and I want to give you a chance to talk

1:09:50

about that. Yeah. I mean, the 15 white coats was something that was the most unexpected

1:09:57

thing that happened in my lifetime. And, you know, I uh was at a place where

1:10:05

um I I knew I desired some leadership. I wanted to be a leader. Uh but I didn't

1:10:12

want to be a leader who was constrained. Right. Right. Right. And it just so happened that that summer, July 2019, I

1:10:19

went to visit the Whitney plantation with my daughter and one of my best friends, Dr. Philip Thomas. And you

1:10:24

know, we went to H.B.CU. So, black history is like extremely important to us, right? When we left, my daughter said something

1:10:31

that was so profound. She said, "Uh, dad, you know, we've come a long way." And I was like, "Who is we and what are

1:10:38

you talking about?" we [laughter] and she was like, you know, I'm riding in the car with two doctors, you know,

1:10:44

nice, man. We just left a plantation. She was eight years old at that time.

1:10:50

Wow. And so I left there and I was like, "Yo, I got this idea." I went back and I

1:10:55

talked to some of my friends, um, Carrie Crook, Dr. carry. Um, Sydney Labot,

1:11:02

uh, Rachel Turner, so many others. And I was like, yo, we need to go here. We

1:11:10

were in medical school. You know how tough medical school is. Yeah. Yeah. You you you you have moments where you

1:11:16

question who you are and who you not. It's tough to get to the Wendy's. It's tough to get to the Wendy, let

1:11:21

alone 45 minutes outside of New Orleans, right? And so we went there, we took those photos and those beautiful photos

1:11:29

of 15 black medical students standing in front of a a a cabin where enslaved

1:11:36

people stayed was our way of telling the world. The answer is no. We ain't going nowhere. As

1:11:42

a matter of fact, you thought you know that you know you you thought you were

1:11:49

burying us, but you didn't know that we were seeds. Right. Right. So we we grew, you know, and now all of us are doctors. Every

1:11:55

last one of us are doctors now. And it's such a beautiful thing for us to go from

1:12:01

there to Kelly Clarkson to um Brook Ballwin on CNN to Steve Harvey to Good

1:12:08

Morning America and all these other things and to build a nonprofit where we are legitimately putting those posters

1:12:14

in classrooms so kids can visualize and have these memories stored in the hippocampus that oh yeah I can be that

1:12:21

kind of doctor. Yeah, I can be a doctor. Simultaneously, we are making sure that the next generation

1:12:26

has a pathway to get into medical school. So, there's a pipeline that we're building called the funding the future

1:12:31

physicians initiative where we are helping students at at institutions across the country become doctors and

1:12:39

it's happening in real time. And thirdly, right now we're on this H.B.CU tour

1:12:45

where we're going around to H.B.CU around the country and literally sitting with these kids. Yeah. To let them touch us, feel us, hug us,

1:12:51

all the things that you're real. that we real people. Yeah. That we are real people. And they like,

1:12:56

"Yo, I could really I could really become you." Yeah. I could really become a version of you. And so to that to that point, man, um

1:13:05

it's beautiful work, man. You know, the 15 white codes is um something the ancestors gifted us

1:13:12

to do. Um it's it's led now by myself and Dr. Labot and Dr. Turner um and our

1:13:20

our executive director Lisa Batist along with our board. But yeah, this work that we're able to do now is a function of

1:13:26

our ancestors giving us permission to do something that really when that photo came out, it disrupted the world and

1:13:32

it's still to this day like people are still in awe of that photo. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's I mean it's um

1:13:39

you know I tell you a quick story that I think is along those lines.

1:13:45

both um my wife and I are docs, right? And she's family doc and we are a doc.

1:13:50

And um they've heard the story a hundred times. Both kids now want to go into medicine, which is

1:13:57

kind of interesting, right? Um and I think and I and I fully believe they'll both do it because they're

1:14:02

they're going to do it in different ways because they're different personalities. But so we went to see we went to see you

1:14:08

see all this superhero stuff, Marvel stuff by me. So we go we love Marvel movies. Yeah. And so we went to go see a Marvel

1:14:14

movie and um and we rate them, you know, we see Iron Man and all this other stuff and we rate them and we're we're dialed

1:14:22

like we're always Oh, so y'all critics critics. Yeah. Like we just, you know, we get you driving back in the car and you're like,

1:14:28

you know, that was a a C. I didn't like, you know, I don't love the Hulk character, you know, whatever the case may be. So we

1:14:34

went to see we went to see Black Panther. Now I'm a I'm I am very very

1:14:40

strict on what these things should look like because I grew up with them. Sure. Right. Like we

1:14:45

I know I have the comment. Yeah. Yeah. You know what it's supposed to So when you change the story line it's

1:14:51

very So I'm very passionate. So anyway, so so Black Panther now Black Panther popped because for for lots of reasons

1:14:58

that we all know, right? Yeah. It popped and so we went to see it. Yeah.

1:15:04

I'm like, you know, this is all right. No, this is this is this is okay. Yeah, this is it from a from a cinem

1:15:11

cinematography standpoint, from a historical standpoint because I know what Black Panther is,

1:15:18

right? I studied it. I know what it's supposed to be. I'm like, "Yeah, that story's kind of, you know, I didn't love the fact that you you kind of went with

1:15:25

the brother and the two brothers fighting." You know, I didn't love that stuff, but I'm like, you know, it's probably a be strong

1:15:31

the everything was strong. And um but it wasn't like it wasn't it wasn't in my top top.

‍

1:15:33

And I was driving home, my daughter said, "What? Just like you." She's like, "What? Are you crazy?" I'm like, "Yeah,

1:15:45

I mean it's a good story, you know. This a bee." And she says, It's an A, Dad.

1:15:52

It's an A. And usually, well, but you'll be surprised. So, I said, "Okay, talk to

1:15:58

me. Fill me in on why it's an A." What? And she said, I said, "Because," She

1:16:03

said, "Because of Black Panther's sister

1:16:10

and I love that lab." And it just dawned on me.

1:16:15

She is two black parents for both physicians,

1:16:21

but she still was excited to see somebody in the lab who look like

1:16:27

look like her little, you know, little skinny, you know, short built, you know, building things that

1:16:32

were super amazing. And so I think what it what when you talk about when [clears throat] you talk about all of

1:16:38

this stuff, you know, what you did with the 15 white coats, what I think we're trying to do as far as like just

1:16:43

exposing kids to things that they may or may not think that they can achieve, it's more it's more than just it's not

1:16:51

it's not this has nothing to do with diversity. No, this is where people get it wrong. Like it has nothing to do. It just has to do

1:16:57

with the fact that a little girl can be inspired by a movie

1:17:02

to stay focused on a goal that she she she doesn't have to see that it's real cuz I'm doing it. Yeah.

1:17:08

She's seen it every day. She can touch it and feel it. She can touch it and feel it. But she just needed that inspiration in

1:17:13

a different way. So I love I love what you do what you what you're doing it. Listen, how do people get in contact with you?

1:17:21

What do they where where can they consume all things Dr. Leay? Yeah, Dr. Russell Leay on every last

1:17:28

social platform that is. And then, you know, to book me for any speaking engagements, it's always www.russellday.com.

1:17:36

Um, I'm I'm grateful, man. I'm beyond grateful for this moment to be on less

1:17:41

than 1%. Um, mainly because when I did my own homework and I looked at

1:17:48

everything you've done to get to this point, I was like, man, bro, like,

1:17:54

yeah, if there's somebody I want to strive to be like, it's that guy. Oh, no. Listen, listen. I I appreciate

1:18:00

it, but I I No, let me hold on. Hold on. Let me catch you. Let me catch you real quick. Hold on. Let me let me catch you real quick. What am I trying to do with the

1:18:06

psychiatrist? I'm I'm I'm about to correct you in the moment. Okay. Okay. Correct me. I'm I'm about to tell you something,

1:18:11

man. You already know what I'm about to say. I know what you're gonna say. You know what I'm about to say. I know what you're gonna say. Let me tell you something, man. Um, and

1:18:18

I'm personally working on this. Black men need to be okay with somebody

1:18:23

giving them their flowers. [laughter] You see how uncomfortable you are right now?

1:18:28

Time for this guy. Yeah. Yeah. But you got to understand what you you got to understand who who's

1:18:35

talking to you. You got to remember when you were in my shoes how much you admired that that one

1:18:43

because you only get like one or two of you. You only get one or two of you when you

1:18:50

in residency, right? Especially in Indiana.

1:18:55

I get one only one. As a matter of fact, day before yesterday, I went to the

1:19:01

grocery store and I just so happened to run into Dr. James Blackwell, who was

1:19:06

the first black doctor

1:19:11

to take me to dinner. And he took me to this place called Rick's Boatyard, which is this nice seafood restaurant in

1:19:17

Indiana. And when I left, I was like, "Bro, a real black man who was a doctor,

1:19:23

took me to dinner, poured into me, and then paid for the dinner." Yeah.

1:19:29

And he ain't make me pay for none of it. Yeah. And ever since then, bro, like I gave him a big hug and I just like

1:19:35

dumped everything on him and he was like, "It's cool, man." Like it's cool. And then ever since then, we went to Jamaican spots, got oxtails, and so

1:19:42

[laughter] to that point, you know, for me, man, this is a special

1:19:47

moment, man. Cuz it's one thing to like see what you see online and stuff like that. It's another thing to share time.

1:19:53

Time is non-refundable. Yes. You don't get this back. You can't go to the store and get more of it. That's not how this works, right? and to to be to

1:20:01

be able to share these hours with you is something it's it's going to have a huge return for me. So, just take your

1:20:08

flowers, man. Yeah, man. I So, I'll take I'll take the flowers, but I'll I'll also tell you uh

1:20:13

selfishly selfishly. Uh, you know, one of the things I'm finding out about doing this and, uh, we'll, you know,

1:20:21

we'll kind of end on this note cuz Jordan Jordan is beating us up to, uh, to get off the camera here, [laughter]

1:20:27

but one thing that I would say, um, doing less than 1% writing about the

1:20:33

people I write about, meeting the people that I'm meeting, and and in some ways,

1:20:41

you know, like I'd love my platform to be bigger, but I don't I realize that it's not really about how big the platform is. You guys seeing you today

1:20:50

true earlier today um Uche like you can go down the list of all the people that have been on like the world's amazing.

1:20:58

Yeah. You know, and I think that I think that right now I think I could get more

1:21:03

people to watch the podcast if I said how terrible healthcare is or how

1:21:08

terrible the world is or [clears throat] how wrong everything is. I think I could. I actually think that if I posted that like, hey, look, this is bad, you

1:21:16

know? Um, I think I'd get more, but I think what I want to focus on and it's this just where I want to be is highlighting

1:21:23

how amazing people are and the and the idea of less than 1%,

1:21:28

you know, I think that even though you have done an amazing job with your platform, there's a ton of people that

1:21:35

don't know you exist. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And just me knowing you exist, learning about you has enhanced my life.

1:21:43

Wow. Individually. Not to mention my perspective on a world that is actually

1:21:49

truly amazing. Yeah. No, this I tell you this last thing. I know we got a couple minutes, but do I

1:21:55

have to believe in three tenants when you when I'm going to give you a signed copy of the book and you're going to read? Oh, yeah. There are three tenants. I'm going to give it away

1:22:01

to to disruption and to change in the world. One is disagreeableness, which you have. You're

1:22:08

disagreeable. You're like, "Listen, I'm going to rock what I want to rock. I'm going to wear what I'm wear. I'm going to be who I'm going to be." You're

1:22:14

disagreeing with the status quo. Yeah. But you're also optimistic. Yep. Your journey has been optimistic to

1:22:19

achieve what you achieve. But you also want to impact the world in ways that people think you can't. And then the last one is relentlessness,

1:22:26

which we found out from your wife. I mean, she don't know that you're just doing it for her. She's [clears throat]

1:22:32

he's just doing it for you. You understand? So when you watch this, understand that that relentlessness is

1:22:37

actually from you. No, literally when I was researching his stuff, all these videos I was watching, I thought I was watching different

1:22:44

people. No, it's the same. I was like, wait, no, but I thought he was this. And I watched another video.

1:22:49

Wait, but I thought he was doing Yeah, he's [laughter] different different like eight different people. You're like different. You like the

1:22:54

multi We going to call you Dr. Leay the multiverse. [laughter] Dr. Leay the multiverse. That's my name.

1:23:00

Marvel. Marvel. Yeah. I'mma post it today. I'mma post it today. Dr. till the day of the multiverse. But honestly, appreciate

1:23:06

you. I know your time is precious. And thank you for coming and and uh you know, everybody out there, you better go

1:23:13

consume him. Get on get online, check him out, like everything he has, re repost it. Um because the greater his

1:23:20

platform is is the greater impact he can have. Thank you. Appreciate you. Appreciate you. All right.

‍