How the Healthcare System Failed Maja Mazur

01:47

So far, how how are you

1:49

enjoying the conference?

1:50

I love it and yeah I think you know one

1:52

gets so many exchanges on linkin and

1:56

most of them like never lead anywhere.

1:58

So I was actually talking with people

2:00

and I was like this is amazing because

2:02

like what are the odds that you know you

2:04

connect with someone on LinkedIn like we

2:07

are both flooded with LinkedIn messages

2:10

and it actually results in you know me

2:12

attending the conference meeting all the

2:14

amazing women here having some really

2:17

genuine very in-depth conversations so

2:21

it's been a really packed and very

2:24

like high calorie as I like to say. Tell

2:27

us though a little bit little spiel on

2:29

healthnakes because I I was intrigued

2:31

when we first talked on Zoom and you

2:34

started telling me about this company.

2:35

I'm like this is this is a disruptive

2:37

idea.

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02:45

Yeah. So what we are building is we like

2:41

to call it an operating system for

2:43

doctors to actually prescribe and get

2:45

paid for prescribing nutritional

2:48

interventions for chronic pain and

2:50

multicondition patients. And what we

2:53

mean by that is we know that food as

2:55

medicine works in chronic pain

2:57

management. We know that it helps not

3:00

only with pain but also with other

3:01

chronic conditions. The problem is it

3:04

takes a lot of time and effort for the

3:06

doctor or the dietician to design this

3:08

plan. And then there's no clear

3:10

reimbursement pathway. So you kind of

3:13

have two headwinds working against the

3:16

doctor thinking about nutrition as the

3:19

standard of care for chronic pain

3:20

management. So we set out on a mission

3:23

to really change that and build a

3:25

software platform that makes it easy to

3:28

design the plan and which then unlocks

3:30

very specific reimbursement codes which

3:33

actually have very little to do with

3:34

nutrition. That's how I hack around it

3:36

to get the doctors paid for doing the

3:39

right thing. Uh so

3:41

but listen you you didn't just you

3:44

didn't just fall into that. You it's got

3:46

to be something you're passionate about

3:48

personally, right? I mean, how do you

3:50

find that space? That's not a space that

3:52

people just fall into.

3:54

No. Uh, it's out of my pure personal

3:57

patient rage. Um, I was an am still a a

4:02

chronic pain patient in my early 20s

4:05

living in London. I suddenly developed

4:08

really debilitating chronic hip pain. I

4:11

was incredibly active. I loved rock

4:12

climbing, hiking. You I spent 21 days in

4:15

winter in the Himalayas one year. Uh, so

4:18

I really live for that stuff. And in my

4:21

early 20ies, at some point all of that

4:23

ended like on my worst flare up days. I

4:26

could barely walk. I had amazing health

4:28

insurance. I was at Goldman Sachs at the

4:31

time. So, you know, every private

4:33

hospital in London was available to me.

4:35

We couldn't find a solution. We I was on

4:38

a wait list for surgery. Um, thankfully

4:41

I refused that and I ended up working

4:44

with someone specializing in functional

4:46

nutrition and it took a lot of time and

4:49

a lot of testing most of which was

4:50

actually not needed but it saved my life

4:53

and that kind of started my obsession

4:56

with the topic speaking with different

4:58

doctors with scientists professionally.

5:00

I was already leading product

5:02

development at a machine learning

5:03

startup in London. So I had this moment

5:06

when I was like I lived this problem. I

5:09

know there are millions of people who

5:12

suffer from chronic pain. Like right now

5:14

that number is 62 million American

5:17

Americans in the US today. It's

5:18

increasing. I know nutrition can help. I

5:22

have the professional background and the

5:23

skills to do something about it.

5:25

So it almost became like an obligation I

5:28

couldn't really like stop thinking

5:30

about.

5:31

Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean I what I found

5:33

is that a lot of disruption comes

5:35

through personal experience or personal

5:37

frustration really with a problem that

5:40

just no one is willing to solve. So

5:42

something I want to ask I didn't talk

5:44

about this on stage cuz I kind of felt

5:46

like I needed to get off the stage cuz I

5:48

was getting emotional but

5:52

you know I feel like everybody has a

5:55

superpower. Everybody has something

5:57

unique to them and it's something that

6:00

they can use that can change the world

6:02

and it's something that doesn't cost

6:03

energy. So like mine is relentlessness.

6:05

I'm just relentless. Like I'll just, you

6:07

know, DM you on on LinkedIn and, you

6:10

know, we, you know, try to continue to

6:12

um connect with you or, you know,

6:14

whatever the case may be or start a

6:16

woman's uh healthcare conference as a

6:18

dude, you know, you know, probably not

6:20

something that a lot of uh men would do,

6:23

but um what's your superpower? What do

6:26

you say that thing is that is intrinsic

6:28

to you?

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06:30

I mean, a really big part of it is just

6:32

not giving up.

6:33

So, kind of similar. I am a very

6:36

stubborn person. I can be I I can be

6:39

very flexible within the framework of my

6:42

stubbornness.

6:43

Well, I don't know if you're if you're

6:44

if you start a startup, I don't know if

6:46

you're really stubborn, right? I mean,

6:48

yes,

6:48

because you got to be flexible there.

6:50

But

6:50

you need to be flexible, but I think you

6:52

need to be maybe relentless is actually

6:54

a better word. You know, you keep going

6:56

and then but that actually I think is

6:58

like my second tier superpower. My first

7:01

year superpower is the ability to meet

7:05

the right people. Like, you know, it's

7:07

just there's just something that the

7:09

universe really keeps sending the right

7:13

people my way. You know, me being here

7:15

is one example.

7:16

The way how we connected with the

7:19

director of the pain recovery program at

7:21

Cleveland Clinic was working with us

7:24

also at a conference, you know, no warm

7:26

in introduction, no kind of friendly

7:29

family member.

7:30

just pure universe provides and building

7:33

something that is needed. Um, and we've

7:35

had a number of these situations,

7:37

especially when moving from the UK to

7:39

the US.

7:40

Yeah.

7:41

Where just through serendipity and

7:44

through asking questions and talking to

7:46

people, I was able to meet

7:48

the right connectors, advisors,

7:50

investors. So, say that's it.

7:53

Yeah. I always say nothing hap nothing

7:55

happens. There's always a reason things

7:57

happen and then everything happens in

7:59

its time. Like that's another thing is

8:01

maybe it's because I'm getting older,

8:03

but you know sometimes you're trying to

8:04

force something and you're like, you

8:06

know, it's not it's not time. Um, so

8:09

where can people find like can

8:12

consumers, you know, are they can they,

8:15

you know, go to your company or is that

8:17

or is it more sort of a B2B thing? Where

8:20

where can people find you?

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08:20

Yeah. So we are predominantly B2B but

8:26

much like you guys we've also opened up

8:28

a direct to consumer uh branch. So we

8:31

are also going through the different

8:33

trials and tribulations of that model.

8:35

And where is it?

8:36

So right now we are actually able to

8:38

serve all 50 states. Okay. Because it's

8:40

tellahalth we have a network of lab

8:42

testing partners in all of 50 states. Uh

8:45

you can find us online. You can go to

8:48

www.healthnext.io.

8:51

Yeah. uh and sign up. Our main

8:53

distribution channel uh are our physical

8:56

therapy partners right now. So when you

8:58

go to your PT especially in Texas, New

9:00

York and California, you can then access

9:03

Health Next

9:04

and you connect you connected with Move,

9:05

right?

9:06

Did you connect with any of the leaders

9:08

here from Move?

9:09

Um not yet. We would love

9:10

Okay. So because we uh that's Vituity's

9:12

functional medicine.

9:13

Oh, yeah. We would love to work with

9:14

you.

9:14

Yeah. So we're in Fort Lauderdale,

9:17

Dallas.

9:19

Uh,

9:19

Frisco.

9:20

Fris. Well, yeah. Frisco, Indiana, Salt

9:23

Lake City, Sacramento, and Maryland.

9:27

Yeah.

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09:27

So, we we we should we should connect on

9:30

I should connect at the reception. Let's

9:32

try to connect you with some of those

9:33

people because there might be

9:35

opportunity there, too.

9:36

Yeah. So,

9:38

uh, so maybe the last thing I would say

9:40

is,

9:41

you know, in respect to the women,

9:43

because there's a spectrum of women here

9:44

as you you can imagine. I mean we had

9:46

students amazing med students we had

9:48

just regular undergrads there are some

9:51

uh students from Texas here you know

9:53

from from Chicago but then we all we

9:56

have um CEOs of health systems here so

9:58

we have and everything in between so if

10:01

you were to going to give you know

10:03

advice to everybody in the conference

10:05

about you know how to disrupt how to

10:07

change healthcare what would it be

10:13

just one piece of advice is

10:15

yeah when one when one you know maybe

10:17

it's a how to get them their the first

10:19

step along you know cuz let me give you

10:23

more time to think and give you a little

10:24

explanation like you disrupted you're

10:27

disrupting a space that people didn't

10:29

even know needed disrupting right it's

10:30

like sort of like how are these two

10:32

things related because you had a

10:33

personal experience but you had to have

10:36

some kind of

10:38

um motivation support advice you know

10:42

coaching to be able to say, "I'm going

10:45

to risk it all potentially and go down

10:48

this path." So, you know, along those

10:51

lines, there's women out there that want

10:53

to do disruption. They want to do things

10:55

differently in their organizations or

10:56

start new ones. What advice would you

10:58

give them?

10:59

Yeah. So, something, you know, they're

11:02

kind of like the obvious parts of find a

11:04

problem and be a solution. I think

11:07

something that has really changed how I

11:10

operate and how I work as a leader

11:13

is I really and I think that's a very

11:15

female trait. I really underestimated in

11:18

the very beginning the power of mentors

11:22

and the network because I think as women

11:24

we are often like I can do it all

11:26

because we are kind of expected to do it

11:28

all you know

11:29

and I think we often take that into

11:31

business with us where we are like oh

11:33

you know I'm going to handle the sales

11:36

the fundraising the product development

11:38

I'll figure it out I'll hustle my way

11:40

through it you can be a great hustler

11:43

and you can work 24 hours a day if you

11:46

don't have the right mentors, especially

11:48

in healthcare, if you don't have the

11:50

right clinical champions, people who

11:52

will like really advocate for you, give

11:54

you the opportunities to get out there,

11:57

it's going to be very hard slash

11:59

impossible. So, I would really say

12:02

think really hard about who would be

12:04

your perfect mentor and advisor and

12:06

connector. Like literally map them out

12:10

and don't assume that just because they

12:13

are super senior, they won't talk to

12:15

you. Yeah.

12:15

In fact, it's often the opposite.

12:18

Some of the most senior people really

12:22

really champion us and work and help us

12:25

because they can and because they really

12:28

believe that it's needed and the fact

12:30

that I'm an outsider from you know

12:32

outside of healthcare. Um I was I

12:36

actually spoke this is a really funny

12:37

story but it's kind of connected to it.

12:39

So, um, I was invited to speak at an

12:42

orthopedic conference in Rome this year.

12:45

Wow.

12:45

And I was like one of, I think, four

12:48

women at the entire conference.

12:50

Yeah.

12:50

The only one speaking and probably like

12:54

the youngest or the third youngest human

12:56

in that entire building. So, I was just

13:00

the weirdest thing for everyone.

13:03

But that conference has won us amazing

13:07

collaborations. I was invited by the

13:09

person who created the whole thing.

13:11

Yeah.

13:11

Because he just really believes in our

13:13

mission and you know if you had asked me

13:16

three years ago would I think that

13:17

someone like Dr. Beini would actually

13:19

invite me to speak at his conference

13:21

I'll be like no why would he?

13:23

Yeah

13:23

but he did. So I mean don't you know

13:25

short sell yourself.

13:26

I think that's a great point and I think

13:28

that in this face in this world of and I

13:31

listen I'm a tech I'm a tech.

13:33

LinkedIn and Instagram are my main are

13:35

my my main I don't Facebook I'm on it

13:37

but I don't really bother with it and

13:39

some of the other ones but I and and

13:41

it's the reason why for my podcast I do

13:44

it in person

13:45

because I I mean we could have done this

13:46

online we could have

13:48

video video and but there's something

13:50

different when you're across from

13:51

somebody to your point you know you're

13:53

you're you know you're breathing their

13:55

air you're walking in their city um so I

13:58

always I mean I'm on planes way more

14:00

than I should be.

14:01

Yeah. Um, but it actually leads to more

14:04

fruitful relationships. And when the

14:06

business, to your point, when the

14:07

business is real, it's real. You know,

14:09

when you're when you're just sort of

14:11

LinkedIn, you not LinkedIn, but uh video

14:13

zooming with everybody, you know, they

14:15

can he can tell you no, super easy. I

14:17

feel like on Zoom, like people like,

14:18

"No, I'm not going to do it." When

14:20

you're in person, you're like, "No, let

14:21

me think about it. Tell me more." and

14:23

and then when they believe and I think

14:24

what you have is it's it's not only

14:27

unique but I don't think there's anybody

14:30

else in the space and I think that

14:32

combination of things makes it super

14:34

appealing.

14:34

Yeah.

14:35

So um yeah no problem. Yeah. So one

14:39

other thing I I I um wanted to ask you

14:42

of course the less than 1% is is sort of

14:45

my mantra. It's my you know I wear it.

14:48

Um, and I'll and I'll give you a signed

14:50

copy of my book so you can um, read it.

14:52

But one of the things I talk about there

14:54

is how we pick winners and losers before

14:56

the race is even even run.

14:58

Mhm.

14:58

And, you know, sometimes we identify

15:01

people who are going to be great and

15:03

those aren't the real ones who are going

15:05

to be great.

15:06

Do you feel like that has ever happened

15:08

in your, you know, your career or even

15:10

even in building the company? Have

15:12

people sort of seen you and judged you

15:15

maybe because you're a woman or maybe

15:17

because they just, you know, you don't

15:19

fit their box. Have you have you felt

15:20

that?

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15:20

Well, so the I can't tell you how many

15:25

times an in usually an investor or

15:29

someone who is

15:31

well either an investor or an MBA grad

15:35

looks looked at me and said, "Oh, you

15:38

look just like Elizabeth Holmes." And

15:40

I'll go like

15:42

We are both female and blonde. Yes,

15:47

Identical twins.

15:48

Yeah.

15:49

So, yes, that has happened to me. Um, I

15:53

wouldn't say it happens all the time,

15:57

but I do I I am actually also like

15:59

personally very interested in how we

16:01

build bias and how humans just in

16:04

general like make decisions on an

16:07

emotional level before you even analyze

16:10

like 10% of the data. I think we are all

16:12

guilty of it.

16:13

Yes. Yeah. Um,

16:14

it's kind of it's some of it is human

16:16

nature, but then what you do with it I

16:18

think is when it becomes

16:20

Yes. Yes. You know what I mean?

16:22

Yes. Correct. So, it's, you know, it's

16:24

there's definitely been times more so in

16:27

the UK than in the US where I felt like,

16:30

you know, I'm really playing this game

16:31

on the super hard mode

16:33

where everything is kind of stacked

16:35

against me. Um, but I've also had plenty

16:40

of, you know, situations and

16:42

opportunities where I felt like someone

16:44

really believed in me and they just

16:46

really, you know, said, "You can do

16:48

this."

16:48

Yeah. Um, so you know, I' I've seen

16:51

both, but it's

16:52

it's hard. I mean, b building a business

16:54

is hard.

16:55

Well, we we wish the best of luck to

16:57

you. I know we're probably going to have

16:59

more conversations and sort of introduce

17:01

you to some of the other team members

17:03

and um I'm sure we will hear more from

17:07

my Mazer at Healthn Next, CEO of

17:09

HealthN. And um thank you. I still can't

17:13

believe you're here. I still wonder, you

17:15

know, so excited that you came. Um, and

17:18

I think that what I'm learning from, you

17:21

know, doing this for the first time is

17:22

that this there's not a conference like

17:25

this, you know, um, but not a conference

17:28

where it's sort of dedicated to women

17:30

and not just, you know, women like a

17:33

woman's conference. It's really like

17:35

it's a healthcare conference, but it is

17:38

geared towards women who are really want

17:39

to make a difference in the world. So,

17:41

thank you again for coming.

17:42

Yeah. Well, thank you for having me and

17:44

yeah, I will really echo that that it's

17:47

and we talked about that in the

17:48

beginning, right? That it's not yet

17:50

another, oh, you're a woman, so we want

17:52

to help you. Like, no, like you're doing

17:54

great things in healthcare and you

17:56

happen to be a woman. And I think we

17:58

need more of that.

17:59

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much. All

18:01

right.

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