Kier Gaines on Mental Health, Masculinity, Therapy & Taking Action

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Knowing yourself better is cool, but what if you don't like what you see? Then what? What if what you see reminds you of someone who you said you'll never

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be? Then what? You just hit me with something that I didn't I didn't I hadn't really thought of until this [music] conversation.

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You know, the way that self- loveve has been sold to us is nonsense. Like [music] you just wrap your arms around

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yourself, look in the mirror, and say, "I love you, self." No. If I hate the nose on my face, I'm not going to like

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the nose on my face because I look in the mirror and say, "I like the nose on my face." So, how am I going to cope with it? You know, and there's different

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strategies. You don't have to like or love everything. You can be indifferent to things. You can nothing things. It's

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okay [music] to nothing something. Welcome everybody to Less than 1%. Amazing, amazing, amazing story today.

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Amazing individual today. First of all, I want to say thank you. All the people that subscribe, all the people that jump

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on, all the less than 1 percententers out there, all you underrated, all the people that are just a little bit shy of

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where you want to be, keep striving. You will achieve greatness. I always say underrated to undefeated. But today,

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today I am honored and blessed. Not honored and blessed. And no, I'm telling you, I I I'll

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explain why throughout the show. Everybody will see why. to welcome Carrie Gaines to the Less than 1%

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podcast. Thank you for coming. Appreciate you, man. Thank you for having me. I'm feeling uh

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I'm feeling undeniable. You heard. I am the less than 1% do something to

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you, man. Especially when you really feel like that's your life. Cuz it could be so lonely being a small faction of a

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bigger part of a population, being like having a master's degree or being an active father or being a black man in

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healthcare. It's like when you when you're such a small percentage of a larger group, you need those affirmations. You need somebody to just

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affirm everybody can see the goosebumps came out where you said that, you know, like

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I would let me cover up some of my goosebumps here. Um, 100% 100%. And we talked about that. I

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mean, in some ways, I told you this is this is going to be therapy. I think

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hopefully for both of us, but definitely for me, you know, to see you out there in what you're trying to do in a world

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that is, let's just be honest. Well, I don't know if I'm or OG. You Jo,

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I think I'm OG. Yeah, you OG now. I'm 40, so I'm Okay, you're I'm guess I'm too. I guess

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I'm too What you mean? You're OG. Whatever. Don't you do that.

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Whatever, bro. Um, but listen, I was raised

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not show nothing. Mhm. We talked about this. We talked about this when we were in DC.

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Yes, we talked about this. I wrote in my first book, Maniac Fanaticism, I said, "What should you feel?" Nothing. I had a coach that told

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me, "What should you feel?" Nothing. No highs, no lows.

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Always ready to deliver. Mhm. And I tell you the one thing, the many things, but the thing that most impacts

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me about what you do is you give people permission. You give people permission to have the

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highs and lows, understanding them, and navigating through them. And I know

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you're building things and we'll talk about that. And I know you're like, "How do I do this? Where where's the next place to impact?" And all those other

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things. And you're going through it to build, which is actually a great time. But I just as I told you, it's a great

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time. Is it? It's a great time. I believe you. I don't feel it though. Okay. I believe you, but I don't feel that

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way. The journey is the win. I I agree.

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I agree. I agree. Can we Can we get here? The journey is the win. But that's like telling a high school for me

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cuz you're in a different play. I don't know if y'all know like what this man does. He too humble for me. like what

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he's in charge of. The the way y'all see the studio, y'all don't know what's outside of it. Like, it's really

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impressive, man. What this man is built, it is, it's incredible. But he's in a different place in his career. So, I'm

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soaking all this game up. But it's like, you know, when kids in high school and you know, they got a face full of pimples and, you know, the boys got girl

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issues, girls got boy issues or whatever. You just got issues with whoever you like and them liking you back. and it's everything seems crazy

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and topsyturvy and you tell a high school student, hey, enjoy it cuz these are the best times. It's like, yeah,

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it's the best times when you look back, but when you're in it, it feels like a personal hill on a never- ending loop.

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100%. 100%. And it's that I think that the the role that I should play, the role

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that you should play as an I should play as OG. Yeah. is to spend every living day

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reminding them as they go through that fire that it actually is the win. That's

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our responsibility. I mean, you think of communities, right? Um, you know, when they talk about oral history in

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communities and what are the elders supposed to do in those in those communities, it's actually convince the

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young people that what they're what they're going through is actually the best part of their lives. And I think

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that's to me like when I look at, you know, when I look at what you've built so far

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and it's not until somebody external looks at you and says, "Listen," and and it's a weird emotion. I I had this

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emotion with Joel Burll. I had this emotion with a lot of different people. I'm so proud of you. Like so proud of

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you. Right? because a lot of what you did was risky in in

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regard to like, hey, listen, I'm I'm an im I'm an im I'm an immigrant kid. I'm

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an immigrant kid. You go to you go to school, you graduate, you get a job, and

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you die. And you work really really really hard so the next generation after you enjoys the fruits of your labor.

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That's really just a story. But you've added elements to it which are celebrating what you're bringing to the

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world. while you're going through it. I think that's special. That's special. It's a Thank you. I have weird emotions. I'm very proud of

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you. [laughter] What's What's you you say weird emotion like it's it's pride. Is it something

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else though? Like it feels like it's more complex than that because you've told me this before and you don't seem

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like a man that gives out hollow compliments or you don't seem like you just just be talking about anything.

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Yeah. [laughter] I feel like you oriented toward me differently than you are some other people. So, what is it?

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Is it like a reminder of where you once were? Is it just like I can see this is it's it's super deep

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actually. It's already the it's already therapy. It's already um deep giving no therapy

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all the time. Go ahead. I can see it's weird like I I can I can get I get a vibe and Jordan knows this

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about me. I get a vibe on somebody. I just get a vibe. You see them, you talk to them,

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you understand that they have the potential and they see it and they're grinding and they're worried and they're

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fearful and they're anxious and they're nervous, but they're confident. It's all it's a whole combination.

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That's me right now. Yeah. And exactly. You came into the room, you don't know what to do. I think you

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don't know what to do. You're telling everybody else what they should do, but I don't think you know what to do. No, it's in my blind spot. Give it to

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me. you came in the room and you individually interacted with everybody

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in the room. Just so everybody knows, this is event um I think it was at the uh

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the best it was basketball where the Wizards play basketball. They changed the name of that joint every 10 years.

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Yeah. Verizon Center, then it was MCI Center. It's it's hard to get. you came into the room and we all were there and we were

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all from like different walks and different you know you you have this specialty you have that specialty you're

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bringing this niche you're bringing that niche and you walked to each and every person and you talked to them and you

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didn't talk to them you didn't talk to them like oh hey I'm yeah I'm click

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click you know I mean it was more like oh hey tell me more about you and I was watching you I was just

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sitting there I wasn't saying nothing and I'm watching you interact with people and you interacted with them in a

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special way. And I can see I already knew. I was like I I told um Jesse uh

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from No. Yeah. Yeah. I told Jesse from Dear Father. I said that that that one is he going to take

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over the world [laughter] and it's and it's happening. So I I I really appreciate that, man. It

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don't feel like that from the inside. I think um just being I think me being a licensed therapist, it forces me to

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be aware of what's going on around me, but I don't always I don't know how I come off sometimes,

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but and it's not a bad thing because I'm so focused on just the moment. It's a human thing.

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Yeah. But that's that to me that's that's like the belly wick of existence though.

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Just being able to have human connections, especially in a world where the proliferation of AI and machines and autonomy and you could do everything now

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without even talking or touching another person. I can sit on a video game, play

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Madden, and talk to my homies from all across the world with not having that face to face. So, it just makes me

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really value the human connection. But my wife says it all the time. She says, "Man, I'm glad you're not aware of how

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you look and how you come off cuz you might be a pompous asshole." [laughter] And that's, you know, it's it's tongue

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and cheek. It's it's kind of joking, but I just I don't take myself that serious, but I just you can't just don't.

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So, let's go back a little bit, right? So, just for people who are out there

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that are watching the show, um how do you how do you make this decision

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to go to be a licensed therapist? That's good. Like listen, like I mean, you know, I'm I I live in a world where

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I write about and created a whole podcast about boxes, okay? And how we should break out of them,

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but I'm putting you in a box. Like, how do you how do you get to licensed therapy? Um, what what's that?

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It was crazy, man. So, I'm from And if you listen to me on a lot of different platforms, what is my am I talking right

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here? If you listen to me on a lot of different platforms, I'll say this a lot, so just ignore this part. But if

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you never met me before, what's up? Let me just give you a little bit. So, I grew up in Washington DC in a quadrant

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called Southeast. Southeast is impoverished. I mean, almost everybody's

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below the uh poverty rate, below uh poverty, um lot of crime in in the time

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that I grew up, a lot of violence, a lot of drugs, a lot of all that. And um I just so happened to grow up in a house

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with a mom who was very emotionally forward. It it wasn't suck it up in my house.

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suck it up. Stop crying. It was like, "No, express. Explain the way that you feel. Use your words. If I came in the

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house and I was confused about anything, uh, you know, my mom taught me about sex when I was like 6 years old." She slowed

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the game down for me. This is what you need to know. She told me how to protect myself at work. If you at work and you in a room with a person and no one else

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is around, make sure other people are around so they can attest that, you know. She taught me how to protect

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myself very, very young. She taught me how to when you're around women, be cognizant of where your body is and what

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your body's doing. When you're around other men, be cognizant of the little microaggressions and stuff they say to you might be hiding how they really

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feel. So, I think that just laid the background for me having a certain level of emotional awareness and

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understanding. Fast forward many, many years, my mom ends up passing when I'm 18. Graduate high school. Try to be a

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rapper, I wasn't good. Try to sell drugs, I wasn't good. Like it [laughter] was just we got so many. Yeah. Keep going. Keep

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going. I got too much compassion to be a drug dealer, man. I'm like, you had a bad day here, bro. This this you, man. Just take

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it, bro. You need this. You need this more than I need the money. All right. [laughter] It I was horrible. Like, it

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didn't work out for me. And I end up charity charity drug dealer. Charity drug dealing. It it's a business

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model that no one ever developed for a reason, you know, but um I end up

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working in the community, end up getting jobs for folks. Our nonprofit organization, folks just got released

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from jail, just got released from substance treatment facilities, all that. We find them jobs, helping them

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give them attitudinal training, help them keep them jobs for 180 days. It was good. that I ended up working in education,

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worked at a school for students with um just profound challenges when it comes to behavior and things like that. And

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they had therapists in the building at the school. So, I never been to a therapist at that time. I thought

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everybody was like, you know, Frasier Crane or like, you know, uh Robin Williams from from Goodwill Hunting, you

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know, just like these old old guys who don't vibe with nothing I do, don't look

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like me, nothing. I didn't see myself. And then I end up at the school with therapists who are all black women and

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they wear Jordans and leggings every day. And a few of them are from Southeast just like me. And that was the

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first time I ever saw myself in the space of therapy. I was like, "Oh, I can

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do that." Bro, when I tell you I applied for grad school and the rest just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It just

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happened. And then four years later, I'm done with grad school. I got a baby. I got a fiance. Life is looking different.

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Then I start interning. I start collecting my hours. I start practicing and then five years later after that

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become a fully licensed therapist and then the social media stuff happened in between that. Yeah. So tell us tell us about that. How do you get from So congratulations.

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Right. Again you decide to do that. You go through and how do you make the transition from I'm going to do therapy

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one-on-one because you're going to do one-on-one therapy with me in a minute. And how do you take that to I'm going to

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provide therapy on this platform to a lot of you're helping a lot of people on

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different issues. I've you know I've watched th literally thousands of of clips of you both Instagram Instagram is

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my go-to but also YouTube and all that stuff and you're you're providing therapy indirectly to those people. So,

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how do you make that decision to and we we'll talk about like the way the transition of your podcast or or your content, but

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how do you make that transition? Um, reluctantly to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want to do it. I used to

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be a family vlogger. I was a family vlogger for the longest time. Yeah, I remember.

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Yeah. It was me and my baby and my fiance at the time. We've been married for seven years now. But I used to make

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videos on YouTube and then I I prop when I proposed to her, I put it on YouTube and it went crazy. So we got

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monetization. So I was like, "Oh, what else can we do with this? Let's see how much see how much how far we can get if we can make a little change." We're both

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working full-time. She was a lawyer. I was working at education. So um

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eventually I shot a video just of a family gathering we did

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and I didn't want YouTube to take my money cuz I was at a cookout and they were blasting music. And you know, if you're playing music, YouTube will take

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your money and give it to the artist, right? Excuse me. And I ain't want that. So, I end up taking my baby

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and we just started walking down the street. And I was talking to a video camera and I said, "Hey, y'all see me

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with my girl, y'all see me with my baby and we hugging each other and we loving and a lot of dudes going to be like,

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"That's what I want. But if you don't go and see somebody about the things you've been through, you'll have all this and

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you'll never be happy." Cuz I had just started therapy at that time. And I posted it on Instagram and ain't ain't

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nobody care, man. Like it's it ain't do nothing. And then I posted again a few months later because I was of the mind

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that I was rambling too much. I come up from an environment where also you don't share your feelings like that.

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It was cool in my house, not in my neighborhood, not in my school. So it was like this conflict in my mind. I

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told my wife, man, I'm talking too much. Don't nobody care to hear black man feelings. Don't nobody give a damn. She was like, man, post that again. I posted

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it again. It went crazy. Viola Davis reposted it. Joe Scott reposted it and

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just boom boom boom boom boom boom and we went from like five like maybe 12,000

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followers to like 180 in like a week and then went from 180 to two something then two to

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three and it just kept climbing. So then the phone calls started coming in. Hollywood was call calling. Movie

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production studios wanted to work all these different people and um a management agency hit us up. It's like

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hey we manage social media talent. we think you'll be a good fit. All right, cool. We ended up, long story short,

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signing with these folks and then they looked at all of my content. They said, "Hey, the family content is cool, but

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you're really strong at expressing feelings and emotions." And I told my manager, "Nah, I don't want to tell

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people what to do. It's too many people on the internet telling people what to do and they sound stupid most of the

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time." And she said, "I think she's like, just give it some consideration." So, I started just posting little

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things. I thought just little things off of my mind, things I noticed from being in grad school, studying to be a

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therapist. And then it just started growing from there. And the more I found my voice in it, cuz it's one thing to

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sit in front of a mic and just talk or provide instruction. It's another thing to put your personality and your

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character in it and I found a way and it ended up sticking and man, it's just been off to

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the races from there. Yeah. There's something we we were talking about it earlier, Jordan and I. Uh there's something I think that

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I think that the content this is all respect due to your you know that that team I think the content is irrelevant.

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M say more what I'm seeing in respect to now 2026 social media is that

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just what you said there people want the emotion they want to like I feel like I know you

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even though I don't know you all the way and I think that the content is just the

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it's almost like uh you know like I don't know you have I don't know soup right you have soup the content is like

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water right you got to have water in all the soup but you don't nobody drinks soup for water, right?

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It's all the other things you put into it. And you know, so the parts of the personality that you bring out,

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you had a clip with your I I don't know if you still do this now, but you had a you have the setup right

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in front of your kitchen. Oh, yeah. And you and your wife. Kitchen Talks. Yeah. Oh, that's our podcast. Yeah. The sit down talk. Yeah.

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Yeah. And you and your wife were were talking back and forth and I can't remember any specific thing you talked

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about. What I remember is the way y'all interacted, how funny it was, how much

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love there was in between y'all, how much you knew about each other without saying you knew each other.

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And that's what I remember. So, I I think there's something to that. There's an emotional connection that people get to you um that someone else could put

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out that same content and it not go anywhere. Yeah. I call that a secret sauce, man. It's your It's your special sauce. And I

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agree. I think I I I think in my mind it's worded differently than the content is irrelevant. But I I know what you're

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saying when you because the soup analogy is good. It's not just for water. The water is vital to the soup. If you don't

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have water, you you don't have soup. Good correction. But yes, like you know, putting a bowl of water

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there and putting some bone broth that's been stewing for 15 hours, completely different experience. And I I think

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you're right in that regard that it's it's more than just what people see on the screen. And I realized this being in

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in therapy, you see this with folks all the time when they dealing with something that's really uh challenging

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or something that's really that's been really detrimental to their overall wellness. They can't always recall

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exactly what happened, but they can always recall how it made them feel.

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Yes. Every single time. That's true in business. It's probably true every aspect of life.

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Humans, man, we're not just human beings. We're human feelings. We feel everything. And almost everything we do

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is motivated in some way by the way we feel. Okay. So, I'm gonna I'm gonna Let's

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challenge [clears throat] this now. Okay. I'm I'm OG. [laughter]

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He don't like that. He don't like it. He don't like it one bit. [laughter] Embrace that. My

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I don't feel I don't You know what the funny thing about it is? I mean, maybe the back, some other things, but I don't

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really feel I don't really feel like You know, it's funny. Maybe it's cuz my kids

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kept me relevant, but I don't feel like my age, but that's a whole different I mean, you don't look at either, but

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it's But age is I ain't going to ask you how old you are. Age is different now because when my grandma was 40, she

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wasn't my 40. Yeah. Right. Right. Correct. 40 back then was an older 40. It was like like a 58 right now. So, I think we

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just move differently. Yeah. All right. So, so here's the therapy. Here's here goes the therapy. I'm going to make myself more vulnerable

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here. Uh, so OG. All right. I'm not telling anybody anything,

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you know? I don't I don't believe in therapy. I think it's a I think it's I'm

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playing role playing. I got you. I don't think it's uh necessary. Like, it's just you're just weak. Like, you

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know, at the end of the day, suck it up. Deal with it. You know what? What do I need? I need to talk about my feelings.

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Nobody cares about it. Nobody cares. Just get up, go to work, dial in, do your job.

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What What do you say to me? What would my response be? Yeah. to that individual. Like if you were my client or we just talking. Yeah, just in general. Just in general.

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Uh let's let's say it's not let's let's say it's a client. Let's say it's a client. Um if somebody came in and said

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that to me, first thing I do is ask about the experiences that led there. Because the

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first thing you want to do is say, "No, that's not true." How you going how I'mma tell you was true for you?

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You're not just saying that for no reason. You're saying that because the things that historically you have

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thought, you have believed, you have seen, you've been exposed to, you've endured have led you to that point. That

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point is relative relevant. So, I validate the experience. And that makes sense. I'm a therapist. I can totally

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see how somebody think therapy is bull. I can see it. That that does not make

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sense to me. I get it. But I want to know what led you here. Then I want to know what socially is reinforcing that.

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What do you see and deal with in the world every single day? Whether it's in your marriage, in your relationship, with your friends, with your kids, what

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reinforces the idea that links weakness to whatever is available here in this

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therapeutic alliance that we got. Next, I want to know what your experience with therapy has been. Who do you know that's

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been the therapy? How did you see them change? You know, even in religious spaces, people who are not very

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religious or who are anti-religious sometimes have really bad examples and hurt. They have a lot of hurt. the

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people that they saw in those spaces weren't demonstrating the ideas and philosophies that they were preaching.

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So they begin to associate that whole institution with something bad because the examples were bad for them. So I

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want to know what the examples are. And next we don't even focus on therapy cuz this ain't it don't have to be therapy.

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Let's just have a conversation. What and we we find out what the biggest pain point in your life is. What is the

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big the thing that's forget being weak right now. What's the biggest thing that's slowing you down? Because if you

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think in terms of weakness, I won't use that language. Fine, we won't use weakness. What's slowing you down?

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What's deconstructing you? What's making you frustrated? What what is what is

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muddying your perspective so you can't achieve your goals? Yeah. All right, cut the camera. We're done. [laughter]

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But that's just that's just like the first couple minutes of the first session. And that's what I mean about

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therapy and can't see yourself in it. Imagine somebody like you sitting the couch and you got somebody doing one of

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these and they're like, "Okay, so how do you feel?" And not taking into a mind taking into consideration what your

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experiences are and why you feel the way you feel. And that's one of the thing that's one of the reasons I wrote the

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book is because it's it's one thing to say do better. It's another thing to

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say, "Well, perhaps if you could do better, you would." So it's not a do better thing for you. It's a hm I wonder

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what's blocking you from being at this place where you feel like you need and and wonder what's better. That's I

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think even some people say I want to do better. Yeah. What does that mean? What does that really what does it look like?

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What is Tell me what that looks like which is a a thought experiment that you don't do without somebody connecting

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with you across you know across the the couch or the table or the mic. That's right. That's right. And even uh

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we see it in therapy sometimes people that come in and you know my mom she never apologizes. She's never apologized

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to me one time and it's ruining my life.

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It's taken every every iota of my

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awareness is into the fact that she will not just own up to her mistakes. But guess what? When your mom finally does,

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you realize it doesn't make you feel better. Don't change anything.

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Now what? Now what? So it's it's it's more

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complicated than I don't believe in this thing. You don't have to, but do you

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believe in getting better or getting over the hump or getting past something or learning how to cope with something?

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It's just with men, it's a lot harder because the world, as much as the world tells us to soften up and be different,

24:48

the world doesn't reinforce that in its interactions with us. So, where does all that I'm I'm curious.

24:55

I'm going to jump quickly and we'll jump back to this. I love a good jump between Let's go. Yeah. your your your journey in respect

25:02

to wanting to do that and have impact. You told me sort of went and you know the origin story if you will of of

25:08

therapy, you know, you told me, okay, this is when I sort of went viral and I'm developing content and figuring that

25:14

out. But there's a lot of people who develop content. There's a lot of people who go viral. There's a lot of people

25:21

have millions and millions of followers and not all of them are focused on helping people. What is that? What what

25:30

where's that come from for you? I don't know. I think it's just who I am, man. I made a uh my mom before she

25:37

passed, she was a she tried to go to school to be I realized this way like

25:42

maybe a decade after she passed, she tried to go to school to be a social worker and she ended up being a

25:48

lactation consultant in underprivileged neighborhoods like the one we lived in. You know, trying to teach women, hey,

25:55

this is how you connect with your child. I know it's hard. Let me give you some support. Let me give you some education.

26:01

It's I think it's just ingrained in me, man. I don't I don't know what's the

26:06

purpose of living life if the person next to you is this close to a breakthrough that will change their

26:13

outlook, their philosophy, their ideology, their way of going about anything and you don't offer it to them.

26:19

Like, as far as I'm concerned, we only get one of these. I think helping somebody make the best out of the one

26:24

they get is just um the most gratifying human experience you can have. And I

26:30

don't do it for a reward. I don't if if when I close my eyes for the final time, if none of this is ever recognized, I

26:36

still lived a good life. I'm fine. It's not about the reward at the end of it. It's about like you said, the journey is

26:42

the prize. And that's a part of my journey. I can't tell you that it comes from some place of grandiosity. I I want

26:49

to see the world be a better place. I I do. But the person in front of me, I I would love to help guide them from where

26:55

they are to where they feel like they need to be. You know, I I I vibe with that. Like I I think for me, as I'm hearing you say

27:00

that, like I always describe it as a compulsion for me. Like a compulsion. Yeah. Okay. Explain

27:06

that. It's almost like a I mean I I've never I've never tasted alcohol before really. I've never I've never ever tried it.

27:12

Oh, you a rare, you know? I'm just You a rare dude, man. Not once. No, I've been around it. Whatever. It's

27:18

just that for me it was basketball. like, "Hey, I'm trying to be an athlete." But then at some point it was

27:24

sort of like I hadn't done it yet. I'm like, "Well, I feel, you know, I don't know." It seemed like people drank it

27:29

drank to feel good. Mhm. And I was like, "I feel great." Like actually, if I feel any better than I

27:35

feel right now, I'm about to do some crazy stuff, you know? So, I never ever then I kind of got into this mindset. I

27:41

really didn't want to I don't drink coffee, you I don't do anything that I feel will change the way I interact

27:48

because I want to be my, you know, myself. I don't want to be hype on coffee or down on whatever it is.

27:54

That's beautiful to me, man. Yeah. I just want to when you see me, you're like that's if moose says something crazy to you, you're like that

28:00

moo crazy. [laughter] You know, if I say something great to you, think that's m's great. that I I describe

28:06

um what I want to do in life as a compulsion because at some level you you

28:13

you talked about it a little bit like like I don't want to write a book I

28:19

don't want to write a book like I want to write a book but I don't want to write a book like you know the the process of writing a book is absolutely

28:25

terrible it is it is right and the re the revealing and and people think like less than 1% oh moo

28:31

wrote a book oh it's great he's a healthcare CEO like it's just sort of part of the thing. I said, "No, like this. First of all, the book isn't about

28:38

healthcare, but what it is is that you're revealing yourself in ways." And

28:43

and my book is not a biography. There's one story. There's like actually two stories about something I've been

28:48

through. But I'm really pushing to you to think about the world differently. But the concept of taking a bunch of

28:55

words that you put together and giving it to somebody, you can't change those words. No,

29:00

you can't. Once they get it, that's it. it's a wrap. Like it's it's over. And so I didn't necessarily

29:07

want to write less than 1%. I wrote a book called Managal Feneticism. I think we have it up here

29:13

somewhere. And in that book, it was kind of the the the idea that

29:20

the there are certain people that pursue success a certain way. And and I felt like there was this formula. I was like,

29:26

"Here's the formula." You know, you got to motivation, you know, you know, execution, like things, you know, and it

29:32

was really, it was really laid out reinforcement. And as I wrote that book, I kept editing

29:37

it. And as you know, as you've been through, I kept shopping it. So, while you're I'm shopping and editing, shopping and

29:43

editing. Okay. Write up a a book proposal. Shopping, editing. And when I I went through it, I was like, "Yo, this

29:48

book is is becoming a totally different book." And I realized I just got to get rid of Maniacal fanaticism. So, I I went

29:56

out, I published it by myself. You self-published that joint? Um, self-published. And once I

30:02

self-published that book, which nobody read, by the way, but once I self-published that book,

30:08

less than 1% just blew out of my mind. It was just like stream of consciousness because I was kind of holding on to

30:14

that. Um, but anyway, long- winded. What I'm saying is is that if you look at the

30:21

things I try to do in the world, it's a compulsion. like like I have a album out. I have a soundtrack for less than

30:27

1%. What are you doing, Moo? But it's a compulsion to try to convince the world

30:32

that we can do some things differently than we're doing them, you know? So, I I see maybe that's part of, you know, you you describe it like I

30:39

don't know where it comes from, but clearly you have a propensity to continue to improve lives of people without

30:46

really knowing what it does for you. Maybe it is a compulsion. Maybe it's um um inclination. Maybe it's I don't know.

30:55

I don't know. I refuse to take too much time and think about it. Yeah. [laughter] Let's go. Um, it is what it is.

31:01

It is what it is and I'm glad that it is, but I Nobody ever says that. And maybe this isn't the most popular thing

31:07

to say when you're promoting your book, but I' I've been unconventional my whole life. I ain't about to stop now. I did

31:12

not enjoy the process of writing it. It was not good. Took me two years to write this book. I did not enjoy it. And what

31:18

I did not expect because as you write it, you realize like your philosophy has changed. You might I I work with a

31:24

certain group of clients and I realized, oh, I was wrong about this and I had to go back and fix stuff. I didn't want the

31:29

book to be perfect. I wanted it to be an active reflection of how I guide people through healing. And um what they don't

31:36

tell you is when you're writing a book, when you have a publisher, you read your book cover to cover like five times. And

31:42

if you're lucky, man. And and it's a it's such a um a

31:48

lesson in saying what you mean and meaning what you say because you can look at something you wrote a year ago and just want to exit all out like I

31:54

don't feel that way anymore. And that never happened to me one time with this book. Why I did not enjoy writing it, I

32:00

really enjoyed reading it. I really enjoy reading it back and I am a crazy critic of myself. Whatever

32:07

content you seen from me that you think is good, I probably don't think it's good. So I describe you in less than 1%

32:13

and I wrote this before we met. You're a creative. My definition of creative is somebody

32:19

who I I if you look at a picture and a portrait, two different things. A picture is a snapshot.

‍

32:29

I take a picture of you now. It will never change. For hundreds of years, if the technology exists, they can look back and say, "Oh, Kira was on less than one percent." If I do a portrait of you, I can

32:35

constantly change it, rework it, draw new lines. Right? Especially if you use oil paints. I don't know if you know anything about painting. My daughter's a

32:41

daughter's an artist. You can change things. You can move things. Same daughter that be hooping, bro.

32:46

Good [clears throat] gosh. Come on, man. Give me a secret sauce. Yeah. Oh, I mean my kids I'm so proud of

32:52

them, man. I'm so proud of them. Should be. But okay, let's jump to the kids. I will say that what I've learned I said this

32:59

um at this WNBA event. What I learned about parenting and I see

33:05

I see you do it. Um, parenting isn't about making your kids the best version

33:11

of you. No. Or a better version of you. No. You're You're trying to make them the best version of themselves.

33:17

Oh, sure. The best. And when I when I you know, my son

33:22

went through a terrible seizure disorder for a year, seized 20 times a day, every

33:28

day on the day. And I, you know, and it's just the four of us. We went through it together. Um, you know, we're running

33:35

around trying to make sure he doesn't fall and speeding to the, you know, I write about that in the book. I didn't want to, but

33:41

the publisher made me, um, speeding to the hospital with him seizing

33:46

and his oxygen s, we had a little oxygen saturation on him. We watched it going down and thinking to myself, he's not

33:52

he's not profusing his brain. And it's only till recently that I can even talk about it without just balling

33:59

my eyes out, man. Um, but I realized in that moment in my mind like he's first born. I'm a Jamaican firstborn firstborn kid.

34:06

Jamaican family. You you the firstborn sorry the firstborn male firstborn

34:12

unfortunately right there's all this stuff associated with it. And what I realized now I was

34:18

like I hope he can eat. I hope he can learn. I hope he can say his prayers. And slowly it taught me how to maximize

34:27

the best version of them and not just you know a better version of me.

34:33

And I think that that that is uh so anyway so that my what I'm saying is the

34:39

book process it's one that I and I love that you said that. I actually love that you said it

34:44

was difficult. Yeah it was and it wasn't enjoyable. That's But I I think that that's I think if it

34:50

was enjoyable, it wouldn't be a good book. I think I said that to my publisher. I

34:55

was like, man, I think if I love writing this thing, it'll be a terrible book. It'd be a terrible book. Like, yeah, I think so, too,

35:01

cuz I read a lot of books. And you know, this is this is no shade to anybody, but there are a lot of books that aren't

35:06

good. Like, they just they're simply not good. And it doesn't matter how good of a writer you are or how good of a

35:13

whatever you are in your particular field. sometimes it just doesn't it doesn't merge well. Um, and that was

35:19

another reason that I it just reminds me of what you're talking about with the kids when you say you make them the best

35:25

version of themselves. There's a point in this process where I'm writing this

35:30

book because it's a continuum of healing. It's it starts with self-awareness and it goes all the way

35:36

to some similar to self-actualization. And in the very beginning, because every

35:43

chapter builds on the last, just trying to think about self-awareness. And I'm trying to put self-awareness into this

35:49

box that everyone puts self-awareness into. Like, it's just knowing yourself

35:54

better. It's like, yeah, but what part of yourself? And knowing yourself better is cool, but

36:00

what if you don't like what you see? Then what? What if what you see reminds you of someone who you said you'll never be?

36:06

Then what? That's tough. That's tough. It is tough. And it reminds me of parenting when you have this idea of

36:12

what it's supposed to be and you're trying to shoehorn your kids into this belief system or into this role and then

36:18

they turn out to be something different. Are you going to continue to stuff them into something that doesn't fit or are

36:23

you going to apply some adaptation and let that thing be great? you just hit me with something that I

36:29

didn't I didn't I hadn't really thought of until this conversation because I encourage people one of the things I

36:35

always tell people on this show everywhere is you have to be your 100%

36:41

authentic self but you just rocked me with what if part

36:47

of who you are like fundamentally who you are is something you don't like yeah

36:53

self love be it's hard to be your authentic self if part of it you don't love. Yeah. Then

36:59

what? Then what? Then what? I have a whole chapter about self- loveve. In the beginning of the chapter, I said, you

37:04

know, the way that self- loveve has been sold to us is nonsense. Like you just wrap your arms around yourself, look in

37:10

the mirror, and say, "I love you, self." Go yoga. Yeah. Do some yoga workout.

37:16

No. If I hate the nose on my face, I'm not going to like the nose on my face because I look in the mirror and say, "I

37:22

like the nose on my face." So, how am I going to cope with it? You know, and there's different strategies. You don't

37:27

have to like or love everything. You can be indifferent to things. You can nothing things. It's okay to nothing

37:33

something. And nothing something means it's like in an emotional purgatory. I don't love it. I don't hate it. But I

37:39

can acknowledge this existence without attaching it to some system of affirmation in my mind. And it's it's

37:45

it's it's tough. But that nobody teaches us that. Nobody teaches us that. With my

37:50

kids actually car teaches us that. Teaches us that. [laughter]

37:55

And it all starts when you do lesson one. Yeah. It's it's just it's it's such an

38:02

experience, man. And I think raising children, hear me out cuz this is a crazy thing to compare. Writing this

38:09

book and raising children have in my mind some connective tissue, man.

38:15

Just in terms of what you put into it. And then you don't know what you're going to get back. For all you know, nobody can read your

38:21

book. Yeah. You can work all you can work this hard and nobody lay eyes on it. You know, you can send your kids to

38:27

private school and get them tutoring lessons and they decide they want to grow up and you know, dad, I want to

38:33

work at a coffee shop. Yeah. It's the out I think that that and back to where we started, which was, you

38:39

know, the 14-year-old pimplefaced kid, how to teach them that the journey is what the thing is. I actually think that

38:45

the the writing of the book is is the wonderful thing, right? I mean, of

38:51

course, it's nice. I mean, I've been fortunate. Um, and you know, you do get

38:56

a bunch of people that love it. I mean, Malcolm read my book. Malcolm Gladwell is crazy.

39:01

My writing hero read the book. My writing hero, Malcolm Gladwell, whose book is Behind Your Head. Me and him

39:07

have the same publisher, same we were on the pod and I'm like, "All right." And it's nervous, right? Because I'm like,

39:13

"Okay, I'm we're recording." I'm like, "Tell me what you think." And it could have been anything. and and he was like,

39:20

"Yo, this is a commercial book." And I was like, "That's nuts." From your fellow Jamaican?

39:25

Yeah. From from my fellow Jamaican. Yeah. Jamaican Canadian at that. Both Jamaican. I'm a huge Gladwell fan. I think that

39:31

man is brilliant. It's been a blessing. But um Yeah. So anyway, I think I think I I I I'm

39:36

intrigued by to read the book because I think I think that I think that that

39:42

struggle I like that I know that people who have that struggle write amazing booksh. Mhm.

39:47

So, I want to talk though. It all starts when you do. Yeah. Tell us about that title cuz that that's

39:52

brilliant. I mean, was that a marketing title or is that something that you Me and my publishers fought about this

39:59

title, man. I love it. I love And my publishers great. They're great. But I'm a huge fan

40:04

of letting the professionals be the professionals. Yeah. And if you hire somebody to do a job and that's their expertise, you got to

40:10

listen to them. And the original title of the book was do yourself a favor and let that go. That was the first title

40:18

and we were excited about it. My publisher came back like oh no.

40:23

And then that was going um hey care. Yeah. I was like you know we don't know

40:28

about that and it was you know it all starts when you do is another it was one

40:35

of the ones I thought about early on and it's just I wanted it to encapsulate exactly what the message is here. Look,

40:43

you know, we we are in an attention economy where people will hop in front of a cell phone screen to tell you what

40:50

they think you need to hear in order to foster a fake emotional attachment to them. And for you to feel like

40:57

everything's going to be okay. And I know as a therapist, you see my face and you think wellness and you think that

41:02

I'm going to tell you everything is going to be okay. Everything is not going to be okay. It's going to be okay

41:07

when you make it okay. When you cope with it, when you face it, when you cry about it, when you're honest about your

41:15

uncomfortable truths that you need to walk through, that's when it becomes okay. And when does it start? It does it

41:21

start when when you know at the perfect time? No. Does it start at an opportune time? No. It all starts when you do. So

41:30

it just it just felt like um the accumulation of everything I think feel,

41:36

believe, and have experienced about healing and helping people heal. Not not social media heal.

41:42

Yeah. We really really really actually go through that process. And I think you

41:47

know to your point about the experts, I'll share

41:52

this book was maniacal fanaticism you know 2.0. This was volume two.

41:59

A word. And um they were like, "No, for real." Yeah, that's what it was.

42:05

Oh, because I felt Oh, you wanted to name it? Yeah. So, I wanted My first book was Maniacal Fanaticism. The second book was

42:10

just Maniacal Fanaticism, and I was just going to put another subtitle on it so it'd be it'd be a 2.0. I

42:16

say no, cuz it's hard to say. Well, I think just everything. Same way with yours. Like, I felt like that's

42:21

what it was. But they said, "So that, you know, we're we're going through it and they said, "Well, you tell this

42:26

story about a coach that didn't believe you could be the CEO." I said, "Yeah."

‍

42:29

And I and they said, "Yeah,

42:33

specifically," he said, "Less than 1%." They said, "That's the that's the title." They said, "That's the title."

42:38

Hey, and now it's a whole brand for me, which is which is crazy cuz got to let the experts experts, man.

42:46

Yeah. Honestly, they did. And they added the cool Defy the Odds, you know, how disruptors defy the odds, which I think

42:52

is pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, it went from a book to a podcast and now an album,

42:58

man. I got the sound. Oh, man. The soundtrack and it's still early in the day, man. It might mess around and be something else

43:05

in another three years. I was I dread it. Who's going to play you in the movie? No, nobody playing [laughter]

43:11

cuz Denzel I mean Denzel can't go back. I mean, I know they got movie magic, but

43:16

I mean, come on now. Um, but but anyway, yes. So, yeah, to to your point, I think, you know, we we talked a lot

43:24

about a lot of things, but I think I've I've dived into what you already have of being all of thing like

43:31

I mean, you know, diving into my hip-hop heritage, you [clears throat] know, diving into

43:36

my my my failed basketball career, diving into my soccer career, you know,

43:42

my You play soccer, too. originally Jamaican like you you start I mean

43:47

of course of course you going out there so that actually obviously from a stature standpoint that was the better way to go but I love I

43:53

loved I still love basketball is just a different game and the the leadership

43:59

lessons in basketball the emotions of basketball the fact that you have to play all players play both sides of the

44:06

ball which soccer not true football definitely not true I like the idea that I mean and there's so many metrics

44:12

there's so many ways you can impact pack the team. It's just a a beautiful game. Yeah. Um, basketball. I used to be a

44:17

bigger basketball fan, maybe in the mid 90s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel I fell off for a while. I'm just making

44:23

my way back. Bronson brought a lot of people back, man. Brunson is a likable athlete, man. Um

44:30

there's there's a few basketball players who are really um just showing

44:35

themselves to be like Giants off the court, too. Yes. Um, you know, I get tired of the

44:41

LeBron conversations in the basket in a in a barberh shop, man. But just as a man, this dude's legacy is undeniable,

44:49

man. Yo, I mean, and we talked about that he is 100% has repped the game, his life,

44:55

his family life, his business life repped it amazingly. I think people get sidetracked into um the idea that there

45:02

is one best of anything. Like, it's just Yeah, it's okay. It's okay. Yeah. Okay, Mike, I agree. Fine. But we don't always

45:10

have to find the best in everybody. You know, you don't have to say, "Oh, Kira is the best. Kira is better than Moo."

45:17

You don't have to say that. That comparative analysis is a part of

45:22

human conditioning that I just I can't get next to cuz I just see this man who's older than me. I think LeBron may

45:27

be a year or two older than me. Yeah. And he took the ball, outran everybody down the court, yammed that joint. My

45:35

knees hurt right now just [laughter] sitting there. Do you understand? Like this man is on the court with his son.

45:41

Like what do we what are we talking about? Regardless of how you feel about Bronnie, you could never beat him in a

45:47

one-on-one. He's a superior athlete to anybody you know. 100%. 100%. And I'm not and I'm not

45:55

tripping on that that whole like I went to a game. I was able to see a playoff game and I took multiple pictures of

46:01

Bronny and and LeBron together. I I I don't think the people who react negatively to that.

46:08

I don't understand it. I don't understand it. If you have an opportunity to put your son or daughter

46:14

in a position to be successful, wouldn't you? There isn't a parent on the planet. I don't think that would you would think that, right? But I think

46:22

and I know this is true in the black community and it's it's and I know I know this is true amongst men but there

46:28

is this fascination we have with suffering or because I suffered my kids have to

46:34

suffer or just getting people to have to earn it the hard way all the time. I earned everything the hard way. My kids

46:41

ain't my kids they never Yeah. No you you have aunties and aunts that

46:46

have high positions. You won't have to slave at uh a fast food joint all summer

46:52

like I did making minimum wage when you could be getting meaningful work experience in this well-conditioned office. My grandma didn't climb out of

46:59

the south on her stomach to New York busting tables and wiping old people's butts so her great grandchildren to have

47:06

to struggle like she did. That's not it. But so I think I think this is one of those things where you know I I'm a fan

47:12

of the idea that change sometimes is for you to make and not to experience. I think we're gonna look back at this and

47:18

be like, "Damn, that man was on the court with his son. It was instrumental in making it happen." I I just think it's fascinating. It's

47:25

fascinating. It's amazing. It's a blessing. He needs to embrace it. I think we need to, you know, I think that

47:32

the world, as great as LeBron is, I think that Bronnie has what I think is

47:40

the worst position in the world. Right? if you and I'm I'm I'm writing about this now. So my next book is called

47:46

Almost and I'm writing about um all of these amazing athletes, LeBron, Mike,

47:53

Tiger, you know, just go down the line of all these worldchanging athletes.

47:59

They can't reproduce him. No, Serena can't make another Serena just like that. Like you can the world

48:05

can't make another Serena Williams just and it's it's it's fascinating. And so I'm I'm diving into the possible reasons

48:11

and you know obviously there's genetics and there's also you know nature nurture and all that other stuff but to your

48:17

point I think there's something about going through the fire that makes you different and Bronny to

48:24

his benefit to his to Jordan to LeBron's credit Bronny will never have to go through the same fire but

48:31

when your dad is LeBron James you got a tough life man because every shot you miss everything

48:37

that you go through that doesn't look like LeBron, everybody's going to roast you for it. And it's always going to be a

48:42

comparison. I told my wife before we had the kids that I was scared to have a son cuz you forever be kid G's son.

48:50

No matter what you do, no matter where you go, no matter what kind of man you establish yourself as you're dad, you're

48:56

dead, you're dead, you're dad. And that just does a different thing to boys sometimes when you are trying to climb

49:01

out of your father's shadow. And it's it's an unfair predicament. And it's easy to say, "Oh, he has it. He has it

49:07

easy. He has a sweet silver spoon, whatever. Man, life is hard. Whether in when I was making

49:14

$465 cent an hour, life was hard. When I made my first million, life was hard. It's

49:20

just hard in a different font. Yes. [laughter] You know what I'm saying? It's a different I say it in the book. I say

49:26

it's a different flavor of hard. You know what I'm saying? Did you say a different font? It's a It's just hard in a different

49:31

font, man. It's It's still hard. You can't avoid the hardness of life. Uh,

49:37

one's in Ariel and the other one's in Times New Roman. Oh, that is somewhere along the way. It's a comic sand webings.

49:43

Was the wingings? Yeah, webdings. It's just hieroglyphics, you know. Sarin, what is Sarin something?

49:49

Anyway, oh shoot, you got me thinking. See, that's how you know that's See, we OG in right now. It's sincer.

‍

49:55

Good job, OG. Oh, Lord. Yeah. Um, okay. So, I, you know, we do this on

50:02

every show. Okay. Um, don't tell me we're coming to the end cuz that's going to make me sad, man. Not at all.

50:08

No, this is great, man. Got another six hours, man. We Joe Rogan in this marathon party. Let's do it.

50:14

So, I ask everybody what their superpower is. Okay. And and I'll and I'll frame it for you.

50:20

Um, your superpower is supposed to be something that is unique to you. It's it's totally unique to you.

50:26

You do it the best. The key the key about a superpower is it doesn't take

50:31

energy to do. Like if you're if you're really doing your superpower, you're like he he I'll

50:37

show you an example. We went to do uh podcast at an event,

50:42

but we never went on the road before. Is that when you went to LA? No, we actually that was the second time we went uh to where would where did we

50:48

go to? Oh, was it Brilliance? Yeah, it was Brilliance. Brilliance Brilliance in Chicago. Chicago. So we went to Chicago.

50:54

Chicago, man. And he uh so he set up same it's the exact same setup. Look, you wouldn't even know.

51:00

And uh we scheduled like six people. Six people. You did six pods.

51:06

And what span of time? What? Within that whole was it four four and a half hours? No. Five hours?

51:12

No sir. No sir. Yeah. So he So he's like throughout the entire day.

51:17

The whole day after the two pods I'm I'm I'm done. So he says to me, he's like,

51:23

"Weren't you tired?" And I'm like, "I don't know." So obviously

51:30

I was in my superower. I was in my superpower mode because I didn't know how much time went

51:35

and I was just in the moment of really connecting with people and really trying to see how people click. So that's

51:42

I think it goes a little deeper than that. You were tired because I could see you were tired. Oh, in between. Yeah, I asked you but I

51:49

but I knew I just wanted to see what you were going to say. But you were tired pre-show and then put and then but the moment the moment they walk in

51:55

it's like you you drop he's Yeah. Oh, you mean when they walk into the studio? The moment the moment that the next

52:00

person walks in turn it on. It was on feel tired. I wasn't participating in it. I was

52:07

tired. I was over there falling asleep and I was like and this guy was just let's go. Let's go bring him on.

52:14

I'm like that too. I can turn it on when I need to. Yeah, but the second like that day when you said I was talking to everybody as soon

52:20

as I got back to my car. Oh, you were Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the introvert extrovert thing. I think the meter was low.

52:26

Yeah, you were. Anyway, so all right. So, what's all that said, what is your superpower? Um, I think it's two things. One is I

52:36

think it's simplifying very complicated emotional concepts. I think I'm a good

52:43

translator like in therapy, therapist specifically and psychologists talking over people's

52:49

heads, you know, you have an axis, two diagnoses with a core mobility and it's it's just a lot of language and don't

52:56

nobody care but us. Like people just want to feel better. Yeah. you know, um but I'm able to take those and

53:01

complicated concepts and just use examples and use

53:07

um use analogies and tell stories to be able to bring it

53:13

home. That takes nothing out of me. That's that's pretty much what my social media

53:18

uh my entire social media presence is about. I think that's one of my superpowers. And another one that I'm

53:24

starting to accept, you said it at the very beginning of this episode, is making people feel comfortable.

53:29

Um, it doesn't I don't even I don't even be really saying anything and people be sitting beside me. Next thing you know,

53:34

I know your whole life story. No, it's you know, I know everything. I know you don't see it. I mean, the second one the first one I I have to

53:41

believe you. Yeah. Yeah, the second one I saw it live and you and again like I mean just to go

53:47

back there a little bit just cuz you said it uh as I was thinking back to the way you engage people. You do it is it

53:54

is at a high level. It's at a high energy level. You know you said when you went home you're like a because you're

54:00

at a high level like you're in it like you're in them like you're in like we met the first time I'm like okay was it

54:05

you [laughter] you in you like and it was a lot going on man. It was it was people don't y'all don't understand.

54:11

We're in a room with a lot of different people. We didn't know each other and instantly it's like it's like oh and and

54:17

I remember cuz I had the books for all the people that were there just as you know we sponsored the event and I said

54:23

you know I went and somebody said hey you got to give care of books. So I give you a book. So I was just ready to sign

54:28

sign the book give it to you and walk away. Before I know it it's like the long arm of the law. Hey man where are you going?

54:33

Yeah what's this about? Go talk to me man. Tell me more. And then we actually, that's why we did our little play um

54:40

therapy. We actually talked about therapy. [clears throat] We actually talked to he's like, "Hey man, what do you think about therapy?" Like, "Oh my

54:46

god." Do you remember what I told you? I said, "I would love if you were one of my clients." No, he you you and um dad's uh I think

54:53

his dad's uh do it too. Uh what's his name? Oh, no. No. Uh it was me and uh Dr.

54:59

Marcus Mason. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's my homie. Yeah. Both y'all. I mean I'm like he's a beast. He's a great therapist.

55:04

Dude, I was trying to dodge. I was trying to dodge. I'm like, "Okay, I got two therapists that that look like me,

55:11

okay, that talk or the same complexion that that are saying the same things as me. I can't talk to these dudes.

‍

55:14

They're going to see right through everything. And we came at you with love, man." And it's because the thing that I

55:24

appreciated was the fact that you were a man that was older than us, but you didn't dismiss what we were saying for

55:31

our youth. And and that that can happen. And you was like, I don't know about that. And I said, hey, I will give you

55:37

three sessions and I guarantee you come back full session from 4 to 50. But but I think I think you hit something there

55:43

that I think is true for me. Like you will never hear me say, "Oh, so like,

55:49

oh, social media is terrible." Like I like my my peers like, "Oh, social media." I'm like, "No, it's not

55:54

terrible. It's not terrible." I've connected with so many people that I would never have met if it

56:00

weren't for social media. I've learned things that I wouldn't have learned. Of course, there's a dark side, but there's

56:05

a dark side to walking in the alley. There's a dark side to driving to work for sure. Like, this is just another way

56:11

to be amazing. If you use the tool correctly, you can actually impact way

56:16

or connect with way more people than you ever could. So, I to your point, like even like music, music's the same thing.

56:22

Like, you know, I'm a Toronto guy, so I got to I got to rep I got to rep Drake, but I'm actually a Drake fan. Yo, I'm like

56:29

old school, new school, current school, whatever it is. Like, I'm embracing like

56:34

I want to see the new rap. I want to see what it's like. And yeah, and and I, you know, that hey, not every song I love, but you know,

56:41

when he be like, yo, [laughter] that is so hype.

56:46

Yeah. You know, so I think that was good. I think, you know, anyway, I mean, they not like us hype. It's hype, too. I'm

56:52

just sorry. I mean, you can say what you want about Drake, but look at the top streaming artists every year for the last decade.

56:57

It's out of control and let's just like So I figured it out. I figured it out. What is it? Figured it out cuz I got I got a I have a hypothesis

57:04

today. Okay, let's go. Let's go. What do you say yours first? What do you think it is, Drake? So this is going back to my days.

57:11

So remember I grew up in Toronto. So grew up in Toronto. So I'm rapping in Toronto. Mhm. So there are lots of people indirectly

57:20

who we were at the beginning of Drake's when he was Degrassi, right? Chaos, who

57:26

is is one of his mentors. I I did some work with Chaos. So, like peripherally, I'm seeing what's going on in Toronto at

57:32

that time. I'm trying to rap in Toronto. No one's care. Like, you're not getting a deal from Toronto. Like, you're not like it's just not going to happen. And

57:39

what I realized with Drake, what he has, which I think I I have it a little bit, but he obviously has it on scale like

57:46

out of control, is hooks. His hooks. Yeah. That dude is just a hook master. Like

57:53

there will be a song that you hear and you don't like it. You're like I can't all the Kendrick fans like ah the new

58:00

album the street skip skip mid mid bid right like but you'll be singing it

58:08

baby roll music and I'm like his hook ability to hook people in

58:15

is otherworldly. God's plan. God's plan. You know it's crazy. It's amazing. Yeah.

58:22

So his like listen as a lyricist of course I think he's really good. I mean

58:27

if he gets in trouble for the writing oh this guy wrote but they do it all the time. People write for each other. It's just that what you do in the industry

58:33

the dawn of time. But his hook creation is off the hook. It is I think it's his hook creation. I also think it's his ability to storytell

58:41

without using too many words. Rick Ros, what does he use now? It's not Rick Ross no more. It's Ricky Ros. Rick Ros. He's

58:48

incredible at this. He's good at he can paint a picture with his words without using too many words or making it sound

58:55

jumble. Drake is really good at taking like these random obscure

59:01

references and ideas and still making you understand. He has this one line. He says, "Do I ever come up in discussion

59:08

over uh nonfat No, what did he say? Over double pump lattes and nonfat muffins."

59:15

And I knew exactly what he meant. I knew exactly what he means. And I I think that Drake is also really fun to

59:20

dislike. He's he's fun to dislike for people. And it's he's an easy target.

59:26

And I I I get why people don't like Drake, but as a musician because I'm kind of and this is another

59:31

conversation. I'mma separate the person from the musician to an extent. He get some people who can't never come

59:38

back for me, right? you know, but with with him, he has this ability to uh just

59:44

like it's it's it's it connects. Even like when he's talking trash before the beat drops, it's you don't you can't

59:50

afford nothing he's talking about. And he's probably going to make you feel bad about staying at the Intercontinental.

59:56

You know what I'm saying? I do not stay at the Intercontinental. But it's it's something his music and

1:00:02

his words and his storytelling, the way that he manipulates his voice to the beat has this gravitational pull that is

1:00:08

undeniable. He has something else too. He has something else too which is if you look

1:00:13

at rap as you study rap, New York rap, right? DC rap,

1:00:18

South rap from the south, LA rap, Chicago rap, Kanye common. Like you can

1:00:24

look around all of America even even with you know the British stuff that's coming out

1:00:29

the drill central CN in it right in and it you know

1:00:35

you know where that rapper is from and everything they talk about is where they're from

1:00:42

and the style Houston right the style is based on where they're from. Well he

1:00:49

cheated Drake. you cheated cuz I know how people in Toronto were raised and

1:00:56

being from Toronto at that time was not about being in a place my my my one of

1:01:04

my best friends was from was from Sri Lanka. One of my best friends I I thought I was Italian till I was 12. I'm

1:01:10

I'm rolling around eating pizza and and and and spaghetti, you know. You from Sri Lanka? Yeah. No my friend I had a friend that

1:01:17

was from Sri Lanka friend that was Italian friend that was from Greek Greece I had all these

1:01:22

very multicultural very multicultural so when you are trying to tell stories to a

1:01:28

group of people many of which whose parents don't even speak the language you learn how to communicate in a way

1:01:34

that isn't just I'm from New York I'm from Brooklyn I'm from Chicago I never thought about that before I'm

1:01:41

actually from Toronto so when you hear me when I talk to you And I watched I can't watch film. He said, "Hey, what

1:01:47

about this clip of you?" I said, "Don't play it. I don't want to hear my accent because when I talk to Jordan, I don't

1:01:53

know where I'm from." Now, if you if you were from Jamaica, it's all kind of accents that come out. We have I had a

1:01:59

podcast. Uh what's his name? Uh from Toronto.

1:02:05

Uh Donovan. Donovan. Donovan Bailey. Donovan Bailey the athlete, the sprinter. Yeah, I remember him.

1:02:10

Yeah, I had four accents in that podcast. [laughter] I think it just depends. It's the

1:02:16

comfort. It's a psychological thing, too. Yeah. Because when somebody's from DC, my DC accent

1:02:22

starts getting Yeah. So, you what what is the music called again? When DC go.

1:02:28

Oh, go. Yeah. You like go? I love it, man. Really? Yeah.

1:02:35

It's It's because I tell people who haven't experienced GoGo, if you're experiencing it now for the first time,

1:02:41

you you're you're really late to the party. Go go go go go go from like n from 80 let's say 84

1:02:48

to about 2010 was just a different thing and a

1:02:54

go- go is like it's one thing to listen all right you can make it let's take it here it's one thing to listen to dance hall

1:03:00

music it's another thing to to be there when it's not just music

1:03:06

it's a smell it's a sensation it's a feeling you dancing with somebody in the dancing my wife's Caribbean so in

1:03:12

America you know, everything's perverse, but like in the Caribbean, like that dancing, that's just what they do. It's

1:03:18

a part of the culture. So, you dancing and you connecting and you having a good time. You drinking a red stripe. You

1:03:23

might have you a ting in between like you doing your thing. Yeah, them tings be

1:03:28

I know you get you some fish. No, Ting is sour. You got to crack that drink.

1:03:34

The ting man. Ting red stripe. What? So, but that's how go- go is and my

1:03:39

Yeah, I've been to go- go and where we've been at the party and the walls are blue cuz we all been dancing all up against the

1:03:45

walls all night. So, yeah, I I love go-go. I love what it means. That's awesome. Yeah, I love it. That's awesome. Okay, we we totally got

1:03:52

sidetracked. So, we have we have our superpowers. One is taking, you know, sort of complex emotion and feelings and

1:04:00

and really dialing them in. And then the second is is really connecting to people. Yeah. Um, so we gonna we're

1:04:06

gonna we're gonna You okay if we call somebody? Oh god. [laughter]

1:04:12

Yeah, let's call somebody. Okay, let's call somebody. Call my wife real quick.

1:04:24

Hello. Hey, boo. Can you hear me? Mhm. All right. You are on the less than 1%

1:04:30

podcast. All right. Okay. Okay. So, I need you I need you to be with your best behavior. All right.

1:04:35

Oh, Lord. Okay. All right. Speak from the heart, my love. All [laughter] right. Hi. How are you? But my best behavior. Hi. How are you?

1:04:43

Hey, and my name is Moo. Listen, I I just want to say, you know, your husband is amazing. Uh I've also seen you on on

1:04:50

the podcast and on Instagram, so I feel like I already know you. So, but since

1:04:56

we're family Oh, man. [laughter] We are family. Here you go. Listen to her. Listen to

1:05:01

her going along with it. Yeah. You know what? We should just we should just turn Kier's mic off and his

1:05:07

earphones. Nah, we ain't got to do that. [laughter] So, uh, when people come on the show, so

1:05:12

less than 1% is a podcast. It's kind of dedicated to people who are underrated. People may feel like they, you know, are

1:05:18

not don't have permission to be their 100% authenticelves. So, one of the things I ask people is about their

1:05:24

superpower cuz I feel like a superpower is something special for you, uh, that only you can do. And so we asked here,

1:05:31

we said, "Hey, what's your superpower?" So he told us, "But you know, we don't believe people. We want [clears throat] to validate

1:05:37

exactly what he's saying." So we we he said he's going to call his best friend and um

1:05:43

so we called you and we want to know what do you think Kier's superpower is?

1:05:48

I mean, he has many. He has a couple, but the first one I mean, in what

1:05:53

context? Just like as a human, as a Yeah. So my definition of a superpower

1:05:59

is something unique to you that when you do, you don't use up any energy. It's just something in the world that you are

1:06:05

just so I wouldn't say good at, but something you uh a skill or a a passion

1:06:11

or something you do that you feel is so amazing that when people meet you, they're like, "Oh my gosh, this person

1:06:16

is such a ex." Gotcha. Okay. The first word that comes to mind

1:06:24

is like a light. Here's a light. Like I've always said that about him. I knew that about him the first time I met him.

1:06:29

And he has this way of like really getting to the meat of what like who

1:06:35

people are, what they're about. Um he just he can look through people's facade

1:06:41

and kind of like see everything for for who they are, but in the most positive way possible. Like he just knows how to

1:06:46

reach people. Um he's always been good at that. He's still good at that. We're one we're one for one. We're one

1:06:53

for one. He did. That's exactly what he said. Thank you, babe. What? Yeah, he said he I mean said

1:06:59

differently, but but uh definitely one for one. You were going to say something else. Is there another one?

1:07:05

Well, for me. Yeah, you said um um [clears throat] yeah, I would just say that the second

1:07:11

superpower is like aside from him just being able to reach people like he's he's a really good friend. I know he

1:07:18

probably wouldn't say this, but he really is. He's a really good friend. like when you're like when you're when

1:07:25

he considers you a friend, he's always going to be there. Like he's he he's going to be able to to just be that

1:07:32

person that that you need even when you don't think you need it. And I guess that kind of goes hand in hand with him

1:07:37

like being able to see people cuz he can see what you need before you need it and he's there to offer it and offer support

1:07:44

here. What do you think? Thanks, babe. I um she and I we've been

1:07:50

I mean we we married of course but she's also my business partner so we've been spending a lot of time together and I

1:07:55

think we have recently just hit this space in our marriage where we just want we genuinely enjoy the others company

1:08:04

and we see each other differently in this space right now. So that just it feels good to hear her say that.

1:08:10

That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, thank you for your time. But before we let you go. Okay. Before we let you go,

1:08:17

go ahead. What you going to ask? Cuz babe, [laughter] you can see I wish you could see his

1:08:23

face right now. Yeah. Yeah. So, tell us something

1:08:28

that you know the world I know you guys, you know, have a lot of people that think they know you, but tell us

1:08:33

something about Kier uh that you know people outside his horror group wouldn't

1:08:40

know. Um,

1:08:45

he is a deep feeler. Like he's sensitive. Like

1:08:50

he is he he be in his feels, you know, and [laughter] he'll tell you about it. He'll tell you how he he's feeling. He's

1:08:57

not shy to tell you how he feels. And I think sometimes people don't always know

1:09:02

that about him. Like he's open online, but he's he's sensitive in real life.

1:09:08

I guess we got moms to thank for that, right? Yeah, we talked about that at the top of the episode. That's how I was

1:09:14

really. Yeah. And I love it. I love that. So, it's such a different interaction,

1:09:20

especially when you're dating someone and you're meeting someone in the beginning, but it's been the best thing.

1:09:25

You've taught me how to be more sensitive. Definitely. This is awesome. Well, you know what we should do? I think actually we're going to send Kier home and we're going to

1:09:32

have you come on. You would you would love her, man. She is sharp. She is sharp, man.

1:09:38

That's so awesome. Well, thank you for your time. I I know that you're busy, so thank you so much.

1:09:43

Thank you, Mrs. Gains. I appreciate you, love. I'm glad to be here, babe. [laughter]

1:09:49

Awesome. Awesome. All right. Thank you. All right, babe. Talk to you later. No problem. Talk later. Bye.

1:09:56

That was so cool, man. I That's That is why we have been together

1:10:03

for what 12 years and married for seven. Kids and own a business together. That's

1:10:08

awesome. It's It's dope to have somebody see you like that, man. Yeah. See you. And it's hard.

1:10:13

It's hard, right? I mean, it's hard to get there and then once you get there, it's hard to maintain it. Yeah. Yeah.

1:10:18

Yeah. You know, just uh But that's awesome. We feel like um we feel like that kind of thing that we

1:10:24

do here on the show is special. Um because the reaction you have I mean I

1:10:30

was watching your face as she's saying things and I think it's one thing to know what you think your superpower is

1:10:36

and it's another thing um when someone else says it. So I stole this uh from

1:10:43

one of our partnership meetings. So we have a big meeting every year. We invite everybody invitu to it. It's a big part

1:10:49

one year. I definitely would want you to come and uh maybe even speak because it's it's really an opportunity to speak

1:10:55

to a lot of healthcare providers and and uh you know right now we're everybody's trying to deal with you know fulfillment

1:11:01

and wellness and burnout. You know how that that that goes. So I I think he would be awesome. Don't you think and

1:11:07

speak? Um but uh I'm I built this superpower thing and so

1:11:16

my superpower is relentlessness. Like I just you know compulsion. I'm just going going going.

1:11:22

Unbeknownst to me I I I brought my dad to the partnership meeting cuz he had never seen me work. Like he never seen

1:11:30

me on stage and it's a thousand people and what was it about 1500? He [clears throat] had about 1,500

1:11:35

1500 people in the audience and then they bring him up.

1:11:40

So, did you know he was going to get brought up? I didn't know anything. It was like the call. You knew.

1:11:46

You knew and you didn't tell me. I see. Are you serious? You knew. I thought it was spur of the moment. They had planned this.

1:11:51

Yeah. I'm going get when they do it. It's a It's a problem with It was kind of spur It was It was spur

1:11:57

of the moment, but it wasn't planned ahead of time, but it was They always trying to get get me. They put your dad on stage. They brought

1:12:03

him on stage. All right. Which was which was interesting for [clears throat]

1:12:14

which was interesting for me. Why? Because he you know I mean you know you

1:12:20

don't you you your parents don't get to see you in your element right? So [clears throat] and then they asked him

1:12:26

what my superpower was and he was dead on. He was he's like, you know, he said determination, but you

1:12:32

know, he described it. It was it was what I call relentlessness. It was that constant constant just keep on going,

1:12:38

keep on going, keep on going. No matter who says you can't, you're always going to keep going. That was a

1:12:46

hate you. [laughter] Thank you, dude. That was that was a

1:12:51

good moment. What did Can you remember what he said that stuck out to you the most? No, I

1:12:56

think it was just it I think it wasn't anything he said, right? It's just it's

1:13:02

an interesting dynamic with fatherhood and you know, it's an interesting

1:13:07

dynamic, right? You you're a kid and your parents are these mag you know, just these no matter how terrible they

1:13:14

are or you think they are or what bad decisions they make, your parents are

1:13:20

like these giants of people, right? And then over your lifetime they

1:13:26

get smaller and you get bigger, right? And so there's that transition where you go

1:13:31

from being a kid to really being, you know, like, oh, this dude's cool, you

1:13:38

know? So, yeah, you got some you got some stuff, but you're a parent like a

1:13:43

Caribbean father has some stuff. No, [laughter] never heard of it before.

1:13:49

You never you never heard of it. But but both both parents both parent but they good. They you know my parents are

1:13:56

you know the fortunate they've you know again have been able to you know live into their late 70s and I think that

1:14:02

they uh they they they they did the best they could and they did it they did amazing

1:14:07

and they did amazing like they did like they did yes there were things different wrong a

1:14:13

Yeah. But what you know what they did they were doing the best they could. Yeah. you know, there being space for

1:14:19

improvement doesn't negate the greatness that took place. And what I would imagine, at least for you, man, because

1:14:25

my my father's Nigerian, I'm half Nigerian and West African dads.

‍

1:14:30

No, no, no. I got

1:14:31

some intersection there. I got to tell you something after, but go ahead, tell me. I I would imagine at least for you that

1:14:37

just having your father on stage at your company. Yeah. and you didn't see it coming. And

1:14:43

how much West African and Caribbean fathers preach you making something of yourself and you arriving and him not

1:14:50

just seeing that, but him seeing you for who you are. Yeah. At your deepest. That's special, man.

1:14:57

Yeah. It was It was It was uh Yeah, that was that was Did I say I hate you?

1:15:02

Yeah. I'm I'm going to get you back. You say you hate him, but you also said thank you. Yeah, I did. I mean, it wasn't my idea.

1:15:08

Yeah, but you participated. What is that accessory? You're accessory [laughter]

1:15:13

to the crime, man. Um, no, that's beautiful, man. So, it was a beautiful moment, though. So, yeah, I can imagine. I can tell. And

1:15:20

when he stopped, I could tell the emotion was getting big, but just keep just keep always talk through it, man. Cuz the emotion is just a signal that

1:15:27

something deep took place. What did I say, man? OG, I ain't g You ain't get nothing out of me.

1:15:33

Listen, I'll tell you I'll tell you something. I learned about the OG's. The OG's sometime have a hard time telling

1:15:38

the difference between emotion and emotional expression. Oh yeah. And because the OGs were denied and robbed

1:15:44

of emotional expression, sometimes they don't acknowledge the emotion. The emotion be there. It's just not the

1:15:49

bandwidth to express it. So it's just just compacted in there like somebody who been flushing uh paper towels, four

1:15:56

ply paper towels down the toilet. It's just in there. At some point going to back up, you know, it's going to back

1:16:01

up. Got the punch in the hot water and and get busy. That's so That's so funny.

1:16:06

That's so funny. We got to get the rotorooer out. Gotta get That's right. But I was saying so my friend Sunny

1:16:12

Sunny, you're out there. He knows this story. So what up, Sunny? Sunny Sunny's a uh

1:16:18

Nigerian. So you know, Toronto, right? Toronto. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. You know, so I have lots of friends who are

1:16:24

Nigerians. So Sunny's dad, God rest his soul. He's he died of ALS. Um but we

1:16:30

would you know we unfortunate but we would joke you know now that we over the trauma we joke about his experience

1:16:37

as a Nigerian kid who ended up going to medical school right he ended up going

1:16:42

to medical school he's a he's a uh retina specialist he fulfilled a Nigerian prophecy

1:16:48

for sure it's in it's written you know in the Nigerian handbook

1:16:53

so sunny played football and in Canada you played football so that's crazy because not a lot of high schools have

1:16:59

football, but he went on to college to play football and he says something. I don't know if it was a touchdown or I

1:17:04

can't remember. I'm kind of making up a little poetic license here, but you you you'll get the drift. So, Sunny's like,

1:17:10

"Hey, Dad, I just got a touchdown." Nigerian daddy said, "What is this

1:17:17

touchdown? [laughter] How are the grits?" Yeah. You know, there it is. Yeah.

1:17:23

What is What is this touchdown? Yeah, there it is. that they they they I mean that immigrant mindset is real.

1:17:30

I didn't understand it because I was I mean even though I'm half Nigerian, half African-American like but half black

1:17:36

American, it's I didn't understand the immigrant struggle until I married one.

1:17:42

My wife is Haitian. So I see and I even say that in my book um Ivonne Orgie

1:17:47

who's an actress, brilliant Nigerian comedian, she says in Nigeria you can be

1:17:53

one of three things. You could be a doctor, you can be a lawyer, or you could be a disappointment.

1:17:59

Wow. She It's one of my favorite bars from her.

1:18:04

I wasn't expecting that one. Yeah. Because when you when you try so hard to provide a a better life, I think

1:18:11

that you adopt a mind a very narrow mindset of what better means because you

1:18:16

sacrifice so much. You need the receipt for your sacrifice to be obvious. I need my receipt to be written in highlighter

1:18:24

yellow and the paper on the receipt to be metallic pink. I need it to be obvious that all this hard work was for

1:18:30

something. And I think maybe the mindset of I don't need you to be a better

1:18:36

version of me. I need you to be the best version of yourself gets lost in all of the sacrifice and all of the traumatic

1:18:42

experience of moving to a country where you don't speak the native language. These customs and culture do not belong

1:18:47

to you. You trying to navigate and find your way. It's hard. It's not something you can understand if you were born in

1:18:54

the country that you live in. Yeah. It's not something that you It's so different. And I tell people I

1:18:59

get this I get this double dose of it where where and I write, you know, I put that in the and at the end of the book

1:19:05

the publishers are like listen you didn't you you got to put more of you. And I'm like no I'm I want to do

1:19:11

studies. I want to talk about people. I want to do all this stuff. And they said no. So they made me write the deny which

1:19:17

is this you know sort of windown and I talk about in there um I describe my

1:19:24

mindset so you can understand the mindset of the book and I and I say I am the I am I was the the the child of

1:19:33

immigrants who immigrated. I'm a double. I'm I'm It's almost like I'm a d I was a first generation

1:19:39

Canadian. Oh. And then I immigrated to America, which people are like whatever, bro. Like Toronto and America, it it is. They're

1:19:46

close. It wasn't I spoke the language. I didn't, you know, but but there's something fundamentally different

1:19:52

just culturally when you came over. And I I joke about this all the time. I went to I went to undergrad in upstate New

1:19:57

York. It's actually north of Toronto. Oh, yeah. And I I went I went in upstate New York. It's out there. And I was I was on the

1:20:03

quad and a bunch of a bunch of black folks started running towards me and I'm

1:20:09

like yo what what's you know like what why are they running? So they g they were super happy. They're like hey man

1:20:15

we're so glad you're here and I'm thinking to myself why are you glad what what are you glad I'm here for? I don't

1:20:20

know. You know what I mean? Are they Jamaican? Like you know [laughter] and then they said uh you need to join

1:20:26

the Black Student Union. And I said why? So, you know, I understand why thinking

1:20:33

about it, but my but my more so like through the American context of why, right? But my snap my my snap thing was

1:20:39

like, okay, what does that mean? Like, what do you really? Whereas here, if somebody said, join the Black Student Union, be like, yeah, of course, my kids

1:20:45

are like, yeah, I'll join. So, that that you're just not used to the thinking. It's a little bit

1:20:51

different. Of course, there's racism in Canada. There's there's there's oppression in can all that stuff. It's

1:20:56

not that it's that much different, but the way you grew up was different, you know. Yeah. Yeah. The environment provides the

1:21:02

context. Yeah. It's it's it's it's uh it's phenomenal. So, I I agree with you. I think I think there's something and

1:21:09

that's another book we can write together. You know, struggle, how struggle really manifests in greatness.

1:21:14

Greatness, man. Struggle. It does manifest in greatness. Man, I tell the story all the time about Shaquille

1:21:19

O'Neal, and I hope that I get to talk to him one day in person. He lives in Dallas. We should have invited him. Oh man,

1:21:25

come on Shaq. Listen, Shaq I find Shaq to be a very um fascinating dude to when I listen to his

1:21:32

interviews. I think he's deeper than people give him credit for. Oh, 100%. He has more depth than he gives credit for. But he was talking about his father

1:21:39

or his stepfather cuz Shak stepfather. Yeah. He's of the belief that, you know, the the weapons that he got were

1:21:46

transformative in him becoming who he is. And I have a different philosophy, but that's not my that's not my lived

1:21:52

experience. It's his. and he says he gave his father uh his championship trophy and his father just no emotion

1:21:59

looked at it pulled on the table said go get another and he's like yes sir and he how that drove him to be a tremendous

1:22:06

athlete and I heard that and everybody was like yeah man that makes you a good athlete the only thing I could hear is

1:22:11

like man I wonder what that took away from him you know if I can't imagine my son

1:22:16

winning a championship boy I'mma hug you and kiss you on your face are you ser look what you did son I'm so proud of

1:22:22

you if you never accomplish another thing in your life. You've already done amazing. I I wonder how much different

1:22:30

his life would be or his self-image would be if that were the response or something in the vein of that.

1:22:36

Yeah. I mean, Dr. Leay talks about that too. He was on our podcast and he t you know, he's sort of he's definitely is a

1:22:42

pediatric, you know, psychiatrist. You know, he's against uh corporal punishment. Um,

1:22:49

which I'm pretty sure to Jamaican parents and and and of your time that

1:22:54

makes no sense. I I'm mixed. So, I was raised by a father who believed in it and a mother who did

1:23:00

not believe in it. And so, the two of them was chasing each other trying to make, you know, one was trying to not me not get.

1:23:06

But, listen, man. I I've been, you know, I needed to be hit, man. I I I mean I think that

1:23:14

I I do I I think that there are other ways to do it, but I do think that kids

1:23:19

do they they shouldn't be hit. They shouldn't be hit. This on the record. Um, but they need to have some level of

1:23:27

fear because whether it's authority or whether it's just drinking alcohol or

1:23:35

driving a car, I find if they don't have a level of fear of fe fear. And I use

1:23:41

that word fear. It's not respect. It's actually fear. Like if I do something wrong, I might die. Mhm.

1:23:46

Like if they don't have that fear, I think it's very hard for them to,

1:23:52

you know, it's kind of like pain, right? If you twist your ankle and it hurts, then you walk with a limp and you don't

1:23:59

do more damage. And sometimes I think fear can cause that for you. Um I didn't

1:24:05

if I I mean nowadays I don't think that corporal punishment is I mean I don't even know if it's legal. Um, but I do

1:24:12

think that the kids should understand you're the boss, dad is the boss or mom is the boss or whatever. I agree. The kids should understand that

1:24:18

dad and mom are the boss. And I believe in corrections. I believe in behavioral corrections. The my concern with fear is this.

1:24:27

Where does the is it fear in the consequence or fear in the person who is

1:24:32

dishing out the consequence? I think it's fear I a third one. Fear in the action.

1:24:38

Fear in the in the action. So being afraid to do the thing. Yes. Okay. Yes. I I don't I don't think it you

1:24:45

should fear me or you should fear the the you whatever

1:24:50

punishment taking away the TV or taking away the Xbox. I don't think that works because then it's just sort of a Pavlovian thing.

1:24:57

I think that you should have an understanding. You and I have fear right now. We have fear. You're going to go

1:25:03

outside. You're going to get in the car and go go go to the airport. You're going to walk across. You're not going

1:25:08

to walk across the street in oncoming traffic. No. Cuz you're fearful that a car might hit you. So there's a there's a there's a certain

1:25:15

level of understanding how the world works, which is there are rewards for certain actions and then other actions

1:25:20

have negative outcomes. And I feel like I don't necessarily think you need to uh

1:25:26

you know go back back in the day whooping and all that other stuff. But I you have to find a way for kids to

1:25:31

understand there some negative consequences of things that they do that I definitely agree with. Yeah.

1:25:36

Doing them in the future. stealing, you know, or whatever it is. Yeah. I think with me because I I maybe

1:25:43

I don't know if I ever got a whooping whooping. If I did, maybe twice in my whole life. My mom wasn't really big on

1:25:49

that. But um I had friends all around me that did. And what I find in this

1:25:54

conversation is the people that did get whoopings and they ended up, you know, end up owning a healthc care

1:26:01

company. [laughter] You know, I I think that's a dope

1:26:06

example because [laughter] a lot of folks I knew got those whoopins and they ended up in [clears throat] prison for a

1:26:12

long time. And not saying that the the whooping is the reason that any of it happened. What I'm saying is it's so

1:26:19

complicated when we deconstruct this in therapy because it affects people in different ways. Who the parent was, how

1:26:25

the punishment was dealt, however, how severe the punishment was. Because remember, you're also a bigger person

1:26:31

hitting a smaller person. Yeah. And that person you have complete control over. And humans don't do well

1:26:37

with power. Just you can look at any point in time. Even today, humans don't do well with power. We abuse it. That's

1:26:44

what we do. P. So the question I ask sometimes in therapy is how do you know

1:26:49

the difference between the whooping that was meant to correct you and the whooping that was just the frustration

1:26:55

your parent had for being overlooked in the world for the boss probably talking them crazy that day or you did something

1:27:02

bad from their definition which signal to them that they're a bad parent now oh on

1:27:08

top of being an immigrant and people talking to me all kinds of way and I don't know the customs of the country I'm also a bad father come

1:27:15

Come here. And now it's not just about you. It's about me. Me. You made me mad.

1:27:22

You did this to me. 100%. How do you tell the difference? And and and the psychological uh ability

1:27:30

to separate those things in the mind of a child is definitely challenging and you know and and depending on the

1:27:35

age of the child. I mean I you know three two three years old I don't think that you're going to get any benefit from doing that. But you know what's

1:27:41

funny? I grew up in again different country. I left Toronto when I was 18.

1:27:46

I the the teachers I had corporate punishment. Oh yeah. I came at the tail end of that.

1:27:53

They just stopped doing that around the time I got to second grade. I remember I remember that. Yeah. I remember my mom getting a call

1:27:58

and said, "Hey, we're going to we're going to we're going to you know whatever strap I amu." And she's like,

1:28:04

"No, you're not." Cuz she was anti to do that back in the

1:28:10

day. This is kind of revolutionary. Yeah. [laughter] My mom My mom said, "Yeah, go for it." And then Yeah. And also, I would rather

1:28:17

get it from the school than my mom. Yeah. Listen, it's funny because you would think that the dads are the ones.

1:28:24

Well, my dad wasn't around, so it was my mom. And which even compounds that if if it's a single mom, it compounds that. But

1:28:31

sometimes in my experience like growing up the moms were the ones that were dealing out like whoa mom would go twice

1:28:38

as hard especially if you're a boy cuz she don't want you to be the kind of man your father was trying to put that. So, uh

1:28:45

I want to ask you a question about um and you don't have to share names or you

1:28:52

know if you you know uh what's the what's the biggest

1:28:57

you know situation you've been it doesn't I again I don't want to uh respect the sort of client you know pat

1:29:03

losing my license relationship but I mean as far maybe maybe we'll use social media as an example is there anybody that has

1:29:08

reached out to you or or a situation where you didn't expect it where you helped somebody that you

1:29:14

didn't even know you helped like to anybody like a celebrity or something like that. I mean it could be any the most profound

1:29:20

if if it's a celebrity that's the most athletes all the time man that's why I learned I was cuz these football players

1:29:26

like hey like whoa bro I just watched you on Sunday like [laughter] relax with the labels uh the the the

1:29:34

athletes that reach out it always shocks me. Um, yeah. And people who I didn't

1:29:39

think knew I existed. It's like, oh man, that's that's always big. Um, the the

1:29:45

dudes that DM me from prison. Wow. Those those kind of uh they those get me

1:29:52

every time. Dudes DM me from prison. Man, I wish I would made different choices. Wish I been more of a father to my kids. Wish I

1:29:59

had been a better partner. Wish I had thought about things differently. Wish I had been better and kinder to myself.

1:30:04

Um, older men, older men, men in their 60s sometimes hit me up just revelations and

1:30:12

things just starting to understand. I think that's beautiful. Uh, women, specifically black women, man. You I'll

1:30:19

say specifically black women because I was raised around all black women and I

1:30:24

understand the unique challenges when it comes to the way black women see black men. Um,

1:30:30

so to for them to trust me just means a lot. And um, but black people, I found out

1:30:37

are not the biggest percentage of my audience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I did not know. So I'll be somewhere in

1:30:43

Alexandria, Virginia, and there's a 45 year old mom who's a white woman, and she's walking up like, "Yo, are you

1:30:49

care?" I'm like, "Yeah." And she talks about all these little points where we relate to one another, and it's just uh

1:30:55

in a world that's so divisive. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's just It's fascinating to me how many how much connective tissue there is

1:31:02

between people who don't look the same or have the same lived experience. I tell you, I'm going to go there for a

1:31:07

minute. I'm going to go through because you opened a door for me and I and I want to say this every time anybody can

1:31:13

hear me. I I believe that we're in a little bit of a state of

1:31:20

it. We're in a world where the opposite is true for some people. Mhm. I think the majority of people are what

1:31:27

you experience. I think the majority of people really just want to connect and they want to take care of their kids and

1:31:33

they want to they want they want good outcomes and they want good, you know, grades and they want a great job and

1:31:39

they want to make good money. They want to drive a nice car and have a nice house and and I don't think that the

1:31:45

majority of people believe that it's mutually exclusive. Mhm. I think the majority of people feel like you should help people who are in need,

1:31:52

you know, especially people who are in a situation that is not their fault, their

1:31:57

own fault. And I think that what has happened is the largest voices, the biggest voices in our c in our country and in our world

1:32:04

are the ones that make the most noise about what's broken. Yeah. The one thing I love I mean as I

1:32:11

keep saying the one thing the 17th thing I love about Kier Gains and the reason

1:32:17

I'm so proud of you and the reason I'm so blessed that you came on the podcast is because you are trying to make the

1:32:24

world a better place through a platform that a lot of people use for nefarious means.

1:32:30

Yeah. And I I love that because you can go viral. I've had one I've had one viral

1:32:37

post. I know I've had three, but I have one really viral post that went like like your level viral and it was about

1:32:44

Seria Bonnelly who I write about in the book. Oh, backflip. Yeah. Yeah. And when Mel when Melanin did the black flip in this Olympics in

1:32:50

this winter Olympics, I posted it again with a little bit of a excerpt from the book and I was like, yo, this is this

1:32:57

viral thing is kind of interesting because it's but you know, 90% of people were like, oh my gosh, she

1:33:03

was so great. She was, you know, she was robbed. D I can't wait to read the book. And then about five people were like, "I

1:33:10

wish he broke her ankle, you know, you know, or or yeah, you know, or why'd you

1:33:15

make it about race?" I was like, "I didn't make it about race. She did a cool thing." So to your point, most

1:33:21

people, man, they just [clears throat] want beautiful lives. Listen, man, I have one thing about being on social media and having I think

1:33:28

across all platforms, I got about 2.5, maybe three million followers and those are just the followers. on

1:33:35

Instagram. I think at my highest I had 58 million people visit my page in one month. Right now it's probably about 10

1:33:42

because Instagram doing something nutty with the algorithm right now. But yeah, it's trash right now. But it's

1:33:47

No, I've noticed that. Yeah. No, I've 100% noticed that it's part of the business model, man. It's It's designed to be this way. It's

1:33:54

I've noticed that it's been in the last Yeah. It's bad. It's like they took the perfect thing and just

1:34:00

Yes. In the last two months sprinkles on top like Was it about two months? It's been about like month and a half that I've noticed.

1:34:06

I was like, the engagements went way down and I'm like, what what's what changed? They cooked the perfect steak and then

1:34:12

they added sugar on top. Like we didn't need that anyway. Sorry. Yeah. No, but regardless, it's um a

1:34:19

damn. What was I talking about? We were talking about the uh social media connecting with people. You had

1:34:26

two or three million followers. Oh, yeah. And one one thing I noticed with all of those people, man,

1:34:32

is um there people just range in opinion. Yeah.

1:34:37

So much. And what people think varies to a million people can see something you do be like that's awesome. And then a

1:34:43

million people can see something you do and say that's stupid. Yeah. And because the brain I talk about this

1:34:48

in my book, it just because the brain has a fondness for negativity, like a

1:34:54

negativity bias, you'll lean into the million people who said that that's stupid and you will

1:34:59

ignore the people who said it's brilliant because it's supposed to be brilliant. That's status quo. Oh, I put

1:35:05

my hand up, too. I stop replying to negative comments. Like I'm so glad people comment and say crazy things

1:35:11

about me on the internet cuz it's really it's not a lot but it's really changed the way I see that. When you say

1:35:16

something about me, you don't know me well enough to dislike me. You dislike the characterization that you've created

1:35:21

of me based on what you've seen. That's cool. You're allowed to dislike me. It's fine. When you say mean things, it's not

1:35:27

about me. You don't know me enough. So that's it's really a reflection and

1:35:32

it's a a projection of something else that's going on behind your eyelids.

1:35:38

I'm just easier to lean into the help and do not

1:35:45

want to make a funny joke and get likes and just, you know, get the validation of that.

1:35:51

So, uh, September 1st. September 1st is the day the book drops, man. Let's go. Let's go. So, what do you So,

1:35:57

uh, tell everybody want care to also give a I know you won't. Um, I'm glad you brought the book, but everybody, you

1:36:04

can pre-order it right now. Yes, it's available for POTA all around the world, internationally, any any platform. Go out and get it. Um,

1:36:11

you know, a great great individual and, uh, I'm going to get my copy. I have like 27 ordered. Uh, but, uh, get your

1:36:19

copy, read it, and listen, reach out, reach out to Kier, you know, um, post it, tag him. Uh, you know, we want to

1:36:26

make this a movement. any book that comes out, it's really not just about the book and and what's in it, but

1:36:31

really d just diving into the human being that created it. So, I encourage all of you out there, please go and um

1:36:37

go and check it out. I appreciate that, man. It's um you know, doing better for yourself isn't

1:36:44

always some monumental change that shatters records and shifts the earth and changes your perspective overnight

1:36:51

when you wake up and you're a different person. It's it's the tiny little shifts in behavior and process

1:36:58

and thought and understanding and what you challenge in your own mind. And if you don't know how to do that, that's fine.

‍

1:37:04

Nobody taught you. But I created an entire book that will walk you from the baby steps to flying really, really

1:37:11

high up close to the sun. So, if you want to do better for yourself, it all starts when you do. It's my book. Go

1:37:16

grab it. It's available for pre-order. And shoot, in a little bit, by the time this airs, you'll be able to buy the

1:37:21

whole thing. I'm about to record audio book soon actually. Yeah, that's I mean the audio book is is challenging. Uh I had I

1:37:28

six hour three six hour sessions. Yeah, that's actually pretty good. It's actually pretty good. Yeah,

1:37:34

it's it's Oh, it's a challenge. Can't wait. Oh, one more question for you before

1:37:40

before I let How many you need? If you had to give advice to to to people out there, I always I've been

1:37:46

adding this to the show because I think it's important. Okay. What would you advise them, you know,

1:37:52

when they're struggling, when they're challenged, when they're down, whether, you know, people doubt you, it can be

1:37:58

motivating, but it also can be devastating. And so, what would you say to those people out there?

1:38:04

Um, you know, I think it it's it's in the title of my book. Um, it all starts when you do. I say

1:38:11

don't wait. I think that faith is a beautiful thing to hold, but faith is a

1:38:16

beautiful thing to let go of and to let go of the faith that things will just work out or things to change on their

1:38:22

own or things to just come to fruition. I think that's a great thing to let go of. If you wait and you train your brain

1:38:29

to wait, you'll wait for the perfect moment. The tricky thing with the perfect moment is you don't always know

1:38:34

when you're in it. And when you miss it, now there's no conduit to change and

1:38:40

you're in a permanent holding pattern. Don't wait. Just do it. Do it ugly. Do it sad. Do it angry. Just do it. And a

1:38:48

failure is not an indictment of your character or capability. A failure is just a symptom of what happened in the

1:38:55

moment. You're supposed to fail. That's how you learn. What are you going to do next?

1:39:00

Starts with you. Starts with you, man. For the record, Kier did not make me cry. It was actually Jordan. It was

1:39:07

actually Jordan. For the record, I don't want no OG's out there like, "Oh, you see Moo on."

1:39:13

So, look, cuz my wife, it's funny you say that. Let's go with it, dog. Because

1:39:18

my wife said in the thing she said, "K sensitive." And a part of me wanted to say, "Yeah, but I'll still beat you up

1:39:24

though." Like, don't don't play with me. Don't get it twisted. Cuz as a man, you know, it's but it's

1:39:29

the duality of both. The what I'm working on is the presence of my sensitivity isn't also the presence of

1:39:35

my inability to protect myself or to to to it's not me being a doormat. It's

1:39:41

just a symptom of my humanness. Yeah. So if I want to cry, bro, I'mma cry, but I'll still beat you up like

1:39:47

and I'll feel bad about it. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. And then we'll have a sensitive talk after. But you will get beat up.

1:39:52

No, no, no. There is not beating anybody up. Just for the record, the I mean I'm

1:39:59

say the album the book is The book the book is coming out and uh we were

1:40:04

talking. Yeah. So n hypothetically hypothe n literally but but literally no car gains I appreciate

1:40:11

you for coming. I know how busy you are. I know I know that we I know that things

1:40:16

are moving for you but I do I do believe that we caught you on the upswing. I think that life is going to get real

1:40:23

busy for you and uh you know I appreciate being a small part of your journey and uh you know but but part

1:40:30

than you think. A bigger part. I warn you. What's up? I I I'm I'm I'm a I'm a bad family

1:40:36

member. So, you I we you will not lose me as a brother. That's what I need, man.

1:40:42

I'm here for you in whatever way you need. I know that the counseling thing and sort of the the way you give therapy

1:40:49

um is an opportunity to pour into other people, but anytime you want to be poured into, I'm right here for you.

1:40:54

Thank you for recognizing that because and I know we supposed to end the podcast but we literally hours man. This

1:41:00

this the thing though man and I said this because this journey and I'll be vulnerable u just in the the spirit of

1:41:07

vulnerability. Uh this journey is lonely man. It's very lonely to be the first to do something

1:41:13

or to pioneer a path that hasn't been treked before. There's not another me and that's not me being pompous. There's

1:41:19

literally there's not another person that does what I do the way that I do it. And it's man, it's [clears throat] so sad sometimes because I look around

1:41:26

and like, man, I need to be poured into, but where does the sun go for light?

1:41:32

Yeah. And and I think the the biggest thing that I'm noticing as Right, uh,

1:41:38

Jordan, is we as we have a lot of people in that seat who um are doing amazing

1:41:44

things, you also want to interact with people who don't want things from you.

1:41:50

Oh, woo. You understand me? Now, now you preaching, that's a different Yes. And

1:41:56

the more visibility you have, the more success it looks like you've accumulated, the more people want something. So now people want to dive into you

1:42:02

because of what they can gain. And I think that I'm in a I've been fortunate enough to

1:42:08

be successful in this healthcare space. So I'm, you know, I'm in that healthcare space. people. I'm I'm in some ways I'm

1:42:16

protected from that cuz listen, I mean from a financial standpoint K,

1:42:23

you know, from a from a business standpoint, like you can't make me the CEO. I'm already the CEO.

1:42:28

And so I think that it it creates a little bit of a, you know, safe space for people to say and I

1:42:35

and I've seen it in athletes, too, right? you seen LT like all these people that I interact with like you're not no

1:42:41

like and even I have some friends I'm like hey we're going to go you know we're going to go to this thing they're like hey I'm going to ask for I'm like

1:42:46

no you're not you're not going to ask for anything you're going to go there you're going to give the man a bro hug and you're going

1:42:52

to do the work that he needs us to do and get done and then we're going to leave and then and then next week when he

1:42:58

calls you you're going to go again and then finally one day he's going to say hey man you don't have a sign nothing for me you want something like no I

1:43:04

don't want something I want the [clears throat] interaction M. So that's a that's a lonely place. I can see it. You know, think about it on

1:43:10

other levels, Shaq, know all these guys. Magic, they say it's lonely at the top, but you

1:43:15

got when you get there, man, you don't realize what that means. But you already said the outcome. The the key is to find people. I always say

1:43:23

that friends are people who always uplift you. Always uplift you. Your life should be

1:43:28

better. If you come and talk to Moo, my responsibility to you as a friend is your life should be better. Jordan,

1:43:34

right? Jordan's been on this journey with me. Like we we basically put this

1:43:39

thing together with nothing and now it's been momentum and all these other people like, "Oh, less than 1%.

1:43:46

I know Jordan like like I should make Jordan's life better as being a part of

1:43:51

this podcast. That's my responsibility and likewise." So I think that anyway, so my point was is that you know, you

1:43:58

got me as a friend, as a brother for life. I appreciate it. I'm cashing in my tokens, man. I don't already,

1:44:03

man. There's so many people you need to meet. You need to meet my uh my mentor Jason Wilson. Man, I know I know so many

1:44:08

good dudes who you just fall in like the same ilk of, man. But yeah, I'm I'mma use that

1:44:14

cuz I need more of that in my life. It's good to pour into people, but I'm learning how to that jar that jar that

1:44:21

that mug is. Boy, boy, it's exhausting. But yeah, I I I appreciate that. Even seeing the

1:44:27

office and everything you got going on and all your office and all the things behind your head like I'm in a woman

1:44:33

dominated field. I don't ever My manager is a woman. My assistants a woman. My business partner

1:44:39

is a woman. Their team is women. That means you have the best people. Oh, I have the best man. My team is

1:44:45

airtight and I love them and I enjoy them and I appreciate them. Yes.

1:44:50

But there's something Yeah. Sometime you need to be around more men and there aren't many men in

1:44:56

any of the fields I influencers not a lot of men therapists not a lot of men like social media space not a lot of men

1:45:03

so to be in a space and to hear something like that is really valuable for me I appreciate I appreciate you all right K gains on less of 1% check it

1:45:10

out you guys got to check it out go buy his book I'm going come after you if you don't [laughter] he's not coming after anybody

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