Part 1: Why Martellus Bennett Chose Art Over Glory

0:11

That's that's now we were a little worried before the podcast. I thought no you about to roll up here bringing

0:17

stories with him. All right. So, um so tell us about I mean that's a

0:23

whole different persona that you're bringing out. I think or maybe you're letting I think football was the the the

0:30

the anomaly in my person. Wow. That was the thing that's not who I am.

0:37

Everything else is who I always been. That was me jumping out of my body to be this thing and do this. That's so

0:43

interesting. So it's the other way around. Like a lot I when a lot of people be like, "Oh, he's a football player." I was like, "Uh-uh." Like I'm

0:49

all these things. And I did football and football is this thing that get glorified on such a big level that they

0:55

no one ever really saw who I really was as a person because they were so caught up in the act of playing football.

1:18

Like, so we have an internship program. Uhhuh. And then they were like, so I started sending them five and six kids

1:24

from Prairie View because I met them. They were awesome. They were like, I mean, they were just inspiring. This one

1:30

little girl, she's probably 5 feet tall. Mhm. And she came up to me. She, you know, I had my book, assigned the book

1:36

forms, you know, like signed the book form. She went off, read the book, read three chapters of the book, came back,

1:42

was asking me questions. I was like, I want that. That's the type of people you want to work. That's different.

1:48

Efficiency. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a um

1:55

you know sometimes when kids of like you know I say it's always

2:02

weird because I don't feel like I'm that much older than them but then when I hear how old they are I'm so I'm 18 20

2:07

years older than a lot of these these these students or my students even when I'm teaching

2:13

the thing that I think it happens in the industry is that the industry wasn't really built for no industry was built

2:18

for them to succeed. No, no. Right. So, I mean, the entire existence of being

2:24

black was not built for you to be to exist to ex to succeed in America.

2:31

Nothing was built for you. Right. And I have this belief I've been I think about this all the time. I have this it's not

2:36

belief, it's facts. Like to be born black American is to be born with the need to redesign the environment which

2:43

you born into. So, you're born to be a disruptor. You're born to Yeah. You born to design, man. We have to redesign

2:50

everything in order to exist the way we want to exist. You you ain't lying. Yeah. So I think there I think a lot of

2:55

these kids I think that you really want the most creative children, the most creative people, the ones that most

3:01

oppressed. Yes. Oppression breeds creativity. Yes. Right. You have to be more creative when you're oppressed. And

3:07

that's for everywhere in the world. Everywhere. The most innovation is going to be happening where people are the most oppressed. Wow. You already

3:14

dropping knowledge. How you going to drop knowledge? We just we just walked in. Uh, I just you said that and it just made me think about that because I went

3:19

to prayer review and I was like, man, these kids are brilliant. Yeah. I run into brilliant kids all the time. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think that they have

3:26

been told that they're brilliant. No, they haven't. Right. You know, cuz of white when the other problem, this is

3:32

something random too, just jumping into this, but like I think a problem with the with black brilliance is there's too

3:39

many times that we have to use white references in order to quantify the brilliance or at least or at least

3:45

brilliance The best brilliance is the brilliance that you don't see coming, right? Like,

3:52

you know, like a lot of times we think brilliance is replicating someone else's behavior, right? I talk about like, you

3:57

know, in the NBA, that's why they suit and shooting all these threes cuz everybody's trying to copy each other,

4:02

right? But brilliance requires disruption, right? Do something new. Do

4:08

something different. Be the first. But that's the thing. But once something is disrupted, everybody wants that thing.

4:15

So Steph Curry was a disruptor, Alan Iverson was a disruptor. Yes. Right. You have these disruptors along the way,

4:20

Michael Jordan was a disruptor, right? The way that he played the game. So you have these when they think about the best players, they really think about

4:26

who was the biggest disruptors to the game, man. Right. Shaq was a disruptor cuz what he can do, the way he can move,

4:31

but Shaq to me is my favorite athlete because he was a disruptor in what it meant to be an athlete. Yes. Right.

4:37

movies, you know, like people Jim um Jim Brown and you know, other people were doing that, but Shaq was like took it to

4:44

a whole other level. Exactly. So, but I was going to say that because the thing I was going to say about the brilliance is not knowing your history, right? You

4:52

don't you think about it, if you don't know your history, you referencing something outside of your own existence

4:57

and your own people. Yeah. And I think you got to learn to learn your history of the brilliance that exists. Cuz when

5:02

you see someone that look like you and you can stand on the shoulders of a a a foundation of people that come from the

5:09

same thing that you, you stand a little taller, but I always got to stand on white references and a white foundation

5:14

is always a little rocky cuz I'm not really sure if it's totally for me. I have to use so much imagination to

5:20

imagine myself in this this group of this group of thought. Wow. So I'm I'm

5:25

here today. We just start sorry y'all. We just started. No introduction. Um,

5:30

but you know, most of you obviously you guys are consuming the podcast ravenously. Um, Jordan and I are here

5:36

today with Martella Bennett. Um, and just just full disclosure, a lot of time

5:42

I have a lot of friends that come and talk to me and talk about disruption.

5:47

Today I have somebody that I instantly instantly friendship, instant connection. I mean just just amazing.

5:53

So, we're going to I'm going to hear more from from from you in a minute, but I just want to let everybody know that what we're doing here, it's less than

5:59

1%. We're focused on disruptors. Disruptors in the world, disruptors in lots of different environments. Of

6:05

course, you guys know I'm a healthcare CEO, but my life is not healthcare. I don't define myself necessarily as

6:11

healthcare. And one of the um the originate the origination of less than

6:16

1% was my journey to become a healthcare CEO. And everybody told me that I

6:21

couldn't do it. a lot of people my I had an adviser that told me you'll never do this and he said I said what's the

6:27

chances and he said less than 1%. So that's where the book um ideology came

6:32

from. So was that a good adviser or a bad adviser? You know what this is it's funny right at the time. So I'm a little

6:40

guy you know but I was I used to be an athlete not as good athlete as you are and I hyperperform when somebody doubts

6:48

me. I didn't realize that, you know, you know, it's like somebody says, "Oh, you can't do it or you can't you can't play

6:54

basketball at your height." Yeah. You can't go to college to play basketball. That makes me, you know, get more

7:00

intense. So, when he said that to me, at first I was obviously upset. But then I realized, no, that's no, no, no. We I'm

7:07

going to show you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I understand that. You know, it's that Michael Jordan kind of, you know, slight thing. So, so anyway, so

7:14

we're here. You took it personal like Jordan said, I took it personal. But the question and and you talk about this and

7:20

we've already talked about this. The question is why did people put people in boxes? What about me made him think

7:27

that? Just like people see you and they think automatically that you should be a certain way. And the truth is we're all

7:33

so complex. We're all so complex that we shouldn't just be one thing or two things or three things. And I I like I

7:41

like this concept too because it what happens is when we spend a lot of uh

7:46

time of our life trying to be something to exist the way that someone else wants us to exist. And there was this uh horse

7:55

um that you know wanted to hang out with the zebra so he painted stripes on

8:01

himself right but the whole time he thought he was a zebra but the horses knew right that he wasn't a zebra he

8:09

kind of fit in kind of like him or whatever is closest close but then there was a a giraffe that wanted to be an

8:15

alligator right I just like them I I love it like

8:20

I went there So, you know, the alligator like, you know, he come in, he paint himself green, he gets in there. Soon as

8:27

he get into the water, ha, they eat his ass. Done. That's what happens when you pretend to try to be something. You go

8:33

into all these spaces, they end up eating you alive, right? you end up eating you end up eating being eaten

8:39

alive from the inside because you have so much you trying to trying to figure out how to be this thing when really if

8:46

you really take a step back and say who am I today and who do I want to be when

8:52

I'm 80 who do I want to be when I'm 60 who do I want to be when I'm 50 and then

8:58

you work up to becoming that person right like you know so I think about myself at 80 a lot and I think a lot of

9:05

times like you know seeing Seeing yourself in the future is, you know, is a very interesting thing. Where what's

9:11

what is someone going to say about me? How's the world going to think about me? How my children, grandchildren going to think about me? How my wife going to

9:18

think about me when I'm 80? And what am I doing now to make sure that this is the way that I am seen when I'm 80? So

9:25

did you That's insightful. I mean, did you always feel like that? Did you always like going through you know you

9:32

and I can talk about phases of our lives like going through phases of your life did you always have that mindset or is

9:38

it developed I always felt my my life was about self-discovery

9:44

and trying to figure out who I am I think that's what life is right and in every phase you meet a new version of

9:50

yourself but the thing is is to realize that this version of yourself may not be the last version of yourself right so

9:57

but then you meet parts of yourself. I really like when I'm doing this. I really like that. Then you take all those things and like that's when I'm

10:04

feeling the best and that's when I'm feeling I want to be this all the time. This is my ver this is my idea. The best

10:10

version of me. Like I love it when I be able to sit under a tree and hang out. I love going to the museums on Sunday. I

10:16

like hitting the coffee shop. I want to do as much of these things that make me feel most like me as often as possible.

10:23

And that's where I really think about self-discovery. the places that like I'm kind of done. Like I'm not really

10:28

interested in traveling new places. I only want to go to Japan because I feel like Japan to me as all the places I've

10:34

been in the world, it's the place that I feel like I want to spend more time, but I only go for two weeks, three weeks.

10:39

Now I've been jumping all these countries and all these places. But then at some point you be like, you know what? I just want to learn more about

10:45

this culture. I want to explore this world. And that's when you start to settle in. Like I feel like I'm at a stage in my life right now where I'm

10:52

kind of settling in into all these ideas I've had of myself over the years. You you have an aura. You have you have an

10:58

aura that like I'm I'm I'm big on when I meet somebody the first time, the way that they

11:05

uh interact with the world. You can see it. You know, you can see somebody who's walking fast and aggressive or you know

11:12

how, you know, whether they're kind of laidback or their interaction with the world. You have you you're very

11:20

uh secure in who you are. That's my impression. I mean, I could be wrong. No, you're right. Yeah. I like me. You

11:27

know what I'm saying? No, I I like me. Like, I like There's not much people could say to me to get me to not like

11:33

who I am. Yeah. Right. I like who I am. I like who I'm becoming. I like the way

11:38

that I live my life. I like the things I choose to do, the things I don't choose to do. I like I like me. And so I think

11:47

that's I you know I think liking yourself is much different than loving yourself.

11:53

And I think loving yourself is like it's deep. It's a it's a philosophical thing,

12:01

right? Like love you can love like you can have that and you don't have to think about loving yourself every day once you develop a love for yourself.

12:07

But liking yourself that's something you got to do daily, right? And do I like myself dayto-day?

12:14

Right? And then it's based on decisions. I I didn't like when I was doing this, right? You know, like we I have friends

12:19

that, you know, they do stuff sometime. I don't like him today. I think about that. I think of my uh I didn't even

12:25

know you was on the show. Sorry. This is Jordan. Yeah. No, no, no.

12:30

I thought I I didn't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's the voice of God." You know

12:36

what I'm saying? Like you said, I think about my kids like that, too. I mean, you don't like

12:41

them. There's some There's some days I don't like them. I mean I mean I love them. Yeah. I think kids are interesting

12:48

because they're they don't know [ __ ] Yeah. Like

12:55

they don't know anything, right? Everything has to be taught to them. Like they don't know how to wipe their own ass, right? They don't know how to

13:02

eat. They don't know how to, you know, you tell your kid to sweep the floor, then you like, "Oh, dang. I never taught them how to use a broom." Right? Then

13:08

they have sweep the floor. You're mad at them because you have expectations because you know it's just something that you know how to do. But someone taught you how to sweep the floor. And

13:15

then like kids are interesting too because like they also are exploring

13:21

what's possible for them like what can I push, what can I pull, what can I get away with or what's a boundary and like

13:28

what's my boundary? And you know your kid your kid come like I have boundaries dad. You be like no you don't knock on

13:36

the door. I'm like ah you know I'm saying you get older you got a girl in the house I wouldn't do knock on the door. You know what I'm saying? But like

13:42

but you want them to establish boundaries with their friends, right? You know what I'm saying? But then you have to have that and it becomes this

13:49

thing about like I think that with children is sometimes you got people forget that we have to respect our

13:54

children and we feel like we are the overseer of of them. But our ultimate goal, I feel

14:01

like parents are more like Professor X, right? It's our guy, it's our job to kind of help find out what their

14:08

superpowers are, right? And help them learn how to use those superpowers. But

14:13

the only reason, the only way to really find out what their superpowers are is like presenting all the possibilities to

14:18

them and then watching them, right? Boom. Oh, okay. Okay. You can fly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She

14:26

can't fly, right? Right. Right. Oh, but she can run like Flash. Okay. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh now this kid

14:32

got a single athletic bone. But that brain but that brain that brain, you know what I'm saying? Oh, oh, he got

14:37

he's an athlete. Amy got brain. I need to find a way to keep him balanced. Yeah. Because a lot of times what happens is the superpower that get us

14:43

the furthest the fastest is the one that you tend to lean into. Okay. Listen. Did

14:48

we meet before? Because you using all my terms and language. My bad. No, no, no. I'm saying did we your book? I mean you

14:55

like you already. I want to read it though. You like you already read. So, I talk about superpowers. Uh, that's

15:01

always talk about. I say, you know, and it's not just super. Some people you say, "What's your superpower?" You're like, "Oh, I'm I'm I'm on time or I

15:08

never give up." That's not a superpower. There has to be something unique, something special about you. Okay. So,

15:14

this is an interesting thing. All right. So, um, speaking of superpowers or like this

15:20

thing that makes you special, right? So, I've been building my website, rebuilding the website myself from

15:26

scratch. And um like social media, take like social

15:31

media, right? Social media takes away everybody's superpower and and it dictates what you what your superpower

15:37

has to be in order to succeed on a platform, right? We have to do this, do that, and it makes everybody kind of the

15:43

same. The interesting thing about social media is that like we're leasing space that we don't own. And it's like if they

15:49

always move your house because the algorithm, you know, your visitors can't get to your house, they don't see your house because the algorithm misplaces

15:55

your house everywhere. But a website, you own a piece of the internet. You own a piece of the web.

16:01

Like this is my you could always this is my space. Literally, you could find me

16:06

here and you can find everything about me. You can't you can't search someone's Instagram and find out the details of

16:12

that last project. You got to keep scrolling, keep scrolling, keep scrolling. But the thing I was thinking about is how we fragment ourselves to be

16:19

consumed, right? Like so on if I need the person to consume me this on this, I

16:24

want to do this. If I want them to consume on TikTok, I have to do these things to be consumed. So I start fragmenting myself in all these pieces

16:30

and then I have to build a link tree so everybody could find all the different pieces of me. But the thing is it's like

16:37

everybody's now on Instagram, everybody's now on Tik Tok, everybody. But there's this idea in our mind that everybody is on these platforms and

16:43

somehow they're going to find us. M but a dot is a permanent address,

16:49

right? There's no algorithm that could change when someone types in ww.tominoi.com like it's there every single time,

16:56

right? So if I go there and I build out the space there, you can consume all of me and get the find out how those pieces

17:03

interact. Exactly. And but what I was going to say is like my superpower like

17:09

I like there's a lot of people out there like that I think they're like good like I could make a cool video I could do

17:15

good videos but there's people that Nike and whatever they going to make way better videos than they got bigger budget bigger cameras they got more

17:23

production whatever they going to do more videos than I can now my videos are going to be good but I'm very like I

17:29

really can't compete with them on that aspect of just right because often they can do it too Right. But they can't

17:36

outwrite me. No. No. I don't They don't think there's a CEO in the world that

17:41

can outwrite me. Right. Right. So, and the way I want to be consumed is through

17:46

the written word because I know one, my audience is people who read. So, people

17:52

like, "Oh, that's too much text." Well, you not my audience. The people who take the time to read it are the people I'm

17:59

looking for. So why am I searching the sea, you know, full of fish that don't like

18:04

the bait, right? When I could just put the exact thing I want them to have, right? And I'm not trying to convert

18:10

anyone, right? The people who come and they spend time here are the people who want to read what I have to say. So now

18:16

if I could write and write and write more, I could super feed right the people in which I want to serve because

18:23

the idea is to be of service. But on social media, we are of service of the algorithm, right? of not the people,

18:30

right? We're almost like the food. 100%. We're almost like the food, right? That's the menu and people are consuming us. Yes. As opposed to coming to us to

18:36

gain information and knowledge a lot. So, would you say that your superpower is a storyteller? Are you I mean 100%.

18:43

Yeah. That's what I do. Yeah. I just found a way to work through several different mediums to tell story. So, I

18:50

don't have a discipline. My discipline is the mastery of my own imagination which right like like so I don't really

18:56

have it's like how many ways can I communicate and imagine so sometimes I have something to say is better in a

19:02

song right sometimes it's better in a book sometimes it's a painting right and sometimes it might be a movie right or

19:08

it might be a picture my job is to articulate what I have to say the best way to say it so I so I so I I would say

19:17

us although I I'm I'm not saying I'm on the same level. But I would say what we

19:23

have is what a lot of writers, you know, Jordan, you have this, you're an art, you're you're an artist and a musician.

19:31

Um, we call what I call creatives, right? Creatives are very different than a, you know, and that that's where like

19:38

my you hit me hard when you said multiple different levels. I I spent

19:45

I think two years ago somebody came to me and said, "Moo, you're you're eight

19:50

different people." And I'm like, "No, I'm Moo. I I know who I am, right? I work at Vitudi and I'm a CEO." Mhm. But

19:57

I'm also Moo. And they said, "No, that's the same person." So I've spent the last two years merging a lot of different

20:04

parts of me. Like and and and so this podcast is an example, right? So you think, well, healthcare CEO, why am I

20:11

having this podcast? Why? Why are you the best c the best guest on my podcast?

20:17

And it's because I'm trying to merge a bunch of worlds. That's really me. You know, I started as a rapper. Oh, wow.

20:23

You know, when I was, you know, the high school thing. Yeah. Um, then I was an athlete. Uhhuh. Messed around, picked a

20:30

bunch of the wrong sports, but got to play in college, which is still significant. Then all of a sudden, I was

20:35

like, well, what do I want to do with all that discipline? You know, all that athlete discipline because now I can't

20:40

do it anymore. Yeah. devastated for a while but turned that to medicine. Then I went to medicine and I'm just doing

20:46

medicine but I'm the kind person if you say you need help or you need something done I'm there. So that mentality got me

20:53

all the way up through this organization now I'm the CEO but no one part of that

20:58

story can be told without the other parts and I love what you say like and I

21:04

spend a lot of time fracturing my existence my love of hip-hop. I I love hip-hop. Mhm. Hip-hop is the anthem of

21:10

my life, right? You heard any of my music? Listen, I have stalked you for the last two days.

21:18

All your books, all the music, everything. You know, the art, the website. We actually have a couple clips

21:23

that we're going to put up, too. But the new website is better though. What? It's like I've been working on it for, you

21:28

know, about four weeks straight now. But is it is it is it live now? It's not live yet. Okay. It's not live yet. I'm

21:33

hoping to get it live Saturday, but I was just, you know, Yeah. But I I love I love what you say. Let me ask you this.

21:40

So I mentioned you to a few friends I have Mhm. in in the NFL or or played in

21:47

the NFL. Well, friends I have a guy named Tyler Klutz. I don't know if you know him. Um he missed you a couple

21:53

times. Um and I said, "What do you know about him?" Cuz I I like to know, you

21:58

know, I get my I get my mindset from people who know you. Obviously, we have a connection through Vuitity. Yeah. Um

22:05

and they said, "He's a dog. Yeah. He's a He's a dog. What? So, were

22:11

you a dog? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I still am. Okay. So, I'm saying, how does that translate now? It um I

22:19

think that the thing is what you're talking about, so to go back on a couple things that you said. One, what you're talking about is the transferable

22:25

wisdom. Yeah. So, a lot of people think that they're starting off at zero, but it's not. They just don't know what wisdom transfers to the next thing that

22:31

they're doing. what do I have already to take as assets as I'm start building this? No one starts zero. The hardest

22:37

thing is to make it to the top and then start back at ground zero again. But you never really start at ground zero again

22:44

because of experiences throughout your life, right? And to me everything is everything,

22:50

if that makes sense. Yeah. Like there's like it's all connected. So like I think that I'm not a kumbaya brother, right?

22:58

I'mma kick your ass. Like you know what I'm saying? So like I like artists, I don't want nobody buy your book. Not

23:05

like they I want to have the best book, right? I want to have the best art. I want to have the best pages. I'm competing, right? I'm in competition

23:12

with myself and I'm also in competition with what is already available. I want to win, right? I want to be the best to

23:19

ever do it. No matter what it is that I decide to do with my life, I'm not living a life to be mediocre. Like I

23:24

don't want to be at the and the I define what's best, right? My best is not

23:30

defined by societal's idea, society's idea of greatness, right? There's like

23:36

greatness within me, which I know I'm capable of reaching and then I want to exceed those things along the way. So,

23:42

in playing the sport, like I guess the the biggest thing is I'm a hands in the dirt guy, right? Like I'm a I play I'm

23:50

my hands in the dirt. Like I'm not a two-point stance tight end all the time. You know what I'm saying? Like, hey, I

23:56

sometimes we stand up too much. I'm like, "Hey, man. Let's get I'm trying to get in the trenches, right? I like to kick ass. I like people to know they're

24:02

like, "Damn, I like when I line up and they look up at me or they be like, god damn this guy again." Now, the way that

24:08

I played the game wasn't the way that is not what media celebrates.

24:14

Tell me more. Right. Because I think that the no one celebrates the plumber, no one

24:21

celebrates the construction worker, but the game does not the life does not work with those people and teams do not work

24:26

with those guys. that's in the trenches doing the grinding work. And my game was ugly. I was just talking to Andre

24:32

Johnson about this the other day. My game was ugly because it was ugly because

24:37

um

24:42

like the way that I play is very hard,

24:47

right? It's not not necessarily finesse. Nah, it's you know what I'm saying? Like

24:53

you know it's like you know it was it was hard. You know, it's But you you speak about it like it you speak about

25:00

it like people didn't respect it or want that players did. That's what you want, right? Media. Nah.

25:07

Yes. I'll never be in anybody's conversation. But anybody that played against me, they won't say the same

25:13

thing. Oh man, we line up against him. He was a dog. Consistently. Like three

25:18

different people% dog. Yeah. Yeah. You I don't back down, you know. I don't do like I just kind of I like to attack and

25:26

you know the thing I don't like about um I don't really like football necessarily

25:34

or I don't really like working with other people a lot or for other people cuz they kind of dictate the way that

25:41

you can play. Working for myself, I get to dictate the game, right? I get to call the plays I want to run, right? And

25:48

I get to play the way I want to play. Now, when you start adding people to the pot, you know, it gets a little bit too

25:53

many chefs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's like I want to put the ingredients and I want to do that. So, my organiz

25:59

is really a single-minded entity, right? And everybody's an extension of my imagination, right? So, my job is to

26:08

um you know, to build the thing, the playground, and then bring other people

26:13

in to play with me within that playground. But I set the rules of the playground and a wrong at the way we

26:19

play together. We'll make new discoveries together. But I have to make the playground first. So if you were

26:24

going to if somebody was going to experience the best part of you, best

26:30

part of what you're doing now, what what book or venue or movie or song best

26:38

represents you? just like in well like like I I

26:43

read I I read Dear Black Boy you know I read it you know I know it's not you know necessarily written for me but it's

26:50

it is written for me it is written for written for your inner child and it and actually it's written you know sort of like you can It's funny you mentioned

26:57

the thing about age I still feel Jordan knows this cuz I I misbehave all the time I still feel

27:05

like the 9year-old 11year-old the 16year-old 18-year-old I can remember every moment how how I felt and it

27:12

actually ma it manifests in you in whatever you're doing now. And so sometimes I have to silence that person.

27:18

I say, "No, no, no, no, no. You can't you're on stage now. You can't say this

27:24

or you have to do it differently." Well, I think that I think that we have to allow oursel to be every age. Yeah. Like

27:30

some mornings I wake up, I feel 80, right? Oh man. You know, other days I

27:35

wake up, I feel 10. Yeah. Right. You know, like but the thing is I think that we are all those things like earlier

27:42

like you was saying too to go back too. I think that what happens is we start wearing all these different masks,

27:48

right? We have this mask for this room, this mask for this room, this mask for this room, but then as you start getting

27:55

older, you start wearing less mask and you start merging every version of yourself and then you just become that

28:01

one character in the world. Um, and I think that's what you like for me when you said that earlier, that's kind of

28:07

like what I was thinking about when you said that, right? It's like, all right, cool. Like I went through a demasking

28:13

period, right? And I think everybody's go through you start shedding these you start shedding versions of you.

28:19

Everything in nature sheds. Yeah. Right. And we shed versions

28:25

of ourselves, right? And we have to do that. You got to allow a part of yourself to die to be renewed, right?

28:31

Wow. And but the people that hang on to a older version of themselves will never

28:37

meet the new version of themselves because they're so anchored to what they used to be. Yeah. If you anchor to what

28:42

you used to be, you can never be what you can be. And the goal is to always

28:48

think about, you know, and a lot of that is ego, right? This is when my ego felt

28:54

the best when I was this version of myself. right now today where I am I can't really have ego because ego cannot

29:01

be present and when you're present because the ego has not done anything and it cannot do anything it can only be

29:07

ego can only exist in the past and in the future it can't that's why we like

29:12

to think about what we are going to do next and what we have done but right now there's no reason to have an ego because the ego hasn't done nothing because

29:18

we're in the act we're in that we're in that that presence yeah yeah so like um so I used to have all these versions I

29:25

did it through art so I had made these characters so like Every time I there's so many versions of myself and it's into

29:30

every character I ever written. So my practice is more spiritual than it is

29:37

about the art itself. It's a art for me or creating and making is more about uh

29:45

is about self-discovery, right? And every time I when I'm making

29:50

something is when I feel most like me. But when I'm done making something, I'm not the me I was when I started making

29:57

because you're now you've added that to your to your persona. I I've discovered something new. Yeah. So, you know, like

30:04

and the I can't make I can't make all new discoveries exploring the same land. So, I have to work in multiple

30:10

disciplines. When I build a chair, I discover something different about myself than I did when I'm building a or

30:15

I'm writing a book. Right? If I go decide to, you know, um shoot a a movie

30:23

while making a movie, I discover something totally different about myself. And if you never disrupt

30:29

yourself and do those new things, you never grow. Disrupt yourself. That's hard. It's terrible. Yeah. I mean, I'm

30:36

saying no. That's hard as a positive as a No, it's like that's dope. Like that's dope. That's hard. Like the dope hard

30:42

like that's hard. Like disrupt yourself. Yes. Disrupt yourself. Right. So, and

30:48

also your environment matters. Yeah. When you think about yourself, right? You have to be in a space that allows

30:54

you to become every version of yourself. Yeah. Like I I know my wife find this silly sometimes when I tell her this. I

30:59

like but like I don't take it for I don't think that each day if I come back

31:04

I've been here for two days there. She's different from when I left. That is that

31:10

is powerful because she she had dinner with somebody. She had her and my

31:16

daughter did whatever they were doing. There's new discoveries for me to make when I get home. I can't just I don't just go home and expect it to be the

31:22

same way that I left for her to be the same exact person when I left. So, I had to give her room to grow and become so

31:28

that I have room to cuz I how can I if I don't give other people permission to grow then I could never give myself

31:36

permission to grow as well. Okay, I'm going to have I'm going to have to stop for a minute. Why? Why? You said that

31:44

you haven't done interviews, podcasts until, right? We talked about the pivot

31:49

you when you're on the pivot. Yeah. And you said you haven't done that for a while now. I mean, in 40 minutes, you've

31:56

dropped more knowledge than I mean, the unimaginable amount of knowledge in that

32:02

time period. And I'm sure there's more. So why I mean, I'm I'm I'm mad at you.

32:09

Why? because I feel like you've denied that gift to the world. Was there was there Yeah. Was there a reason that you

32:16

were that you felt like you I mean now you're you're talking you're talking to me you you know you're you're

32:22

you're out there but was there a period of the time where you had to find it first cuz you're full of knowledge. No,

32:28

I just kind of got to the point where one I felt like people didn't ask the

32:35

right questions. M I think you know in the in

32:43

the art of the interview kind of died right and then it just became gossip

32:49

and I think the interview is about wanting to discover something in the person that you're right you want to

32:56

explore right a lot of people don't really want to explore they just want sound bites

33:02

and I also don't think that anyone should talk every Okay. Right. You need time to go find life.

33:09

Like life happens. You need to go travel. You need to go read books. You need to go if cuz other thing if you do

33:15

that the only thing you can do is talk about other people's lives. I don't like talking about other people's lives. So I

33:22

I'm okay with having a conversation and then I'd rather have three weeks to live

33:28

to go do things like go to the museum. I saw this. I watched this movie. I did this. I played these video games. or my

33:34

daughter had this ballet and I met this person. I like talking to strangers in the coffee shop. I like doing all these

33:40

things. And then I'm full of thoughts and ideas. I like to write. I like to do these things. And and I think that a big

33:48

part of the the thing with the conversation was that like nobody wanted to talk about what I wanted to talk

33:53

about, what I was interested in. And I think that, you know, especially when it came to black men, like the conversation

34:00

we're having in as black men, I think one of the worst thing men could do is sit on a co a couch and gossip about

34:08

other men and other people's lives. Yeah. Now, we could talk now talking about ourselves. Yeah. Constructively,

34:16

sharing knowledge. This is the type of conversations I live for, right? These are the type of conversations I feel

34:21

like we need more of. We need more space of. And you know, a lot of people talk about vulnerability or whatever, but I

34:27

think that even that word is, you know, they that's gone too far. Yeah. Like like don't be that vulnerable. You know

34:33

what I'm saying? Like that to yourself. Like right, bro. Like I like I That's

34:40

not vulnerability. I That's your diary. Too much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so like um my brother tells me

34:48

all the time, you know, he said he he was telling me he's like, "Oh man, I think you should do sports commentating

34:54

because the way I talk I don't talk about sports often, but sometimes he ask me about something and I'll break it

34:59

down." He like, "Bro, that's why you need to be on TV." I've I've heard you talk a few times about sports.

35:06

You're hilarious. That's what I'm trying to say. No, you and it's not cuz cuz again, right, it it's all that you know

35:13

like Jordan I think is that thing where you have a um expert you have an expertise in

35:20

something. So the one thing I'll never do ever is

35:25

is I my pet peeve in the game let me let me back up. So when I first took my kids

35:32

six seven to play basketball they said they wanted to play basketball. I'm like listen we short like what are you doing?

35:37

Yeah, it's in the family jeans. But they say they wanted to play basketball. They just love the game. Like I love the

35:42

game. How old are they now? Uh my son is 21 uh and my daughter's 19. Both are playing college basketball. My son's at

35:48

uh UT Dallas and my daughter's at Boston College. He's in the ACC. Oh wow. Yeah. So I tell everybody, Yeah. you you don't

35:55

believe I was an athlete. Fine. Yeah. But I make them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's cool. But I make them. So uh

36:02

and she and she's I think she's like the second shortest in the ACC. Wow. Which is impressive, right? She's 5'5 maybe.

36:08

Yeah. My daughter's 53. She live in. Yeah. So that's Yeah. She

36:14

going to be You're tall. She almost taller than my wife. Yeah. But um I guess what I was saying is is that I

36:20

don't feel like and this is to your point about interviews. So I got there are a lot of people out there that talk

36:27

about healthcare that never worked a day in healthcare. There's a lot of people out there that have never even made

36:34

their high school team in any sport. Right. And they are the number one commentators on, you know, ESPN or and I

36:41

have their coaches. I have a hard time listening to them because I'm like, listen, you first of all, you're out of

36:46

shape. Stay in shape, first of all. I agree. And if you're not in shape, how are you going to tell someone who

36:51

dedicated their lives to be excellent in that sport, how they should play the game, and what they should be doing. You

36:57

know, Joel Embiid is injured all the time. Have you ever stepped on a court to understand what it's like to play

37:02

that game 82 games every day? Don't don't. So I have a hard time the same

37:08

thing in healthcare. People like, "Oh, healthcare needs to be this and that." I'm like, "Y'all haven't spent one day working at it." You know what I mean? I

37:14

I think that like so I think what makes like just in what

37:20

I think makes me good at these things or or ever at least sufficient is that I

37:26

don't find to think I don't think of myself as an expert, right? Like I don't I think like the worst person I think

37:31

you could hire for your company is an expert. Worst. Yes. They just they know too much that they can't discover new

37:37

things. So I like people who are uh who know that they don't know. Yes.

37:44

Resourceful people. I want the most resourceful people who can constantly make discoveries. Like I always say that

37:50

the I don't think the smartest person is the person who holds the most information in their head. It's the ones

37:57

who can find the information when they need it. Yeah. I need to know how to do this. Okay. Okay. You have to have that

38:02

hunger to want to find that information. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that

38:08

lifelong learners, a lot of institutions aren't life aren't learning institutions, but every company should

38:14

be a learning institution, right? Like they everybody that works there should be constantly being

38:19

educated, right? We should constantly be growing our education. We learn as an institution because then the institution

38:24

can grow. Now the institution is not here to educate you, but you can be educated at the institution. M okay.

38:31

Martellus Bennett is the new CEO of it. It's all it's official. I'm hand this

38:38

I'mma hand this off. I just like you know like I just think like leading people, right? Like you know or like I

38:45

think every CEO needs should be creative. Yes. Right. I think you got to have creativity to lead. Yes. And um and

38:54

I think also a leader, you know, it's always interesting. I

38:59

like nature. Like I love like I learn most about life through nature, trees,

39:06

animals. I think anything that you want to know about the world, you can learn about it in nature. There's nothing that

39:11

happens with humans cuz humans are animals. Mhm. We just have our instead of like even architecture, you could

39:18

look at what ants how ants work together, right? You can look at those things and be like, "Oh, we could build houses just like ants." like you know

39:24

and then the interesting thing about nature is that every creature can build their own home but man cannot like we

39:30

always got to find somebody else to build their home. Yeah. There used to be a time where you know you have to do that or whatever and um

39:39

but like the wolf pack when they're traveling you know the alpha wolf

39:46

is always in the back of the pack. Mhm. Because if you attack a wolf pack,

39:52

so sometimes you got to put your second and lead in the front so that I can go to the back of the line and make sure everybody else can make sure everybody

39:57

else is okay. So a lot of times about leadership is empowering the next group of people to lead. Yes. So that you can

40:04

coach. Absolutely. It's hard to coach when you're leading. Yeah. Right. So you have to be able to, you know, win to

40:11

lead and win to follow. And that's a tough thing to navigate. Like I think the one thing I hate about SP sports is

40:16

that they pick leaders but leaders emerge. Yes. You can't pick a leader.

40:22

Yeah. Right. Cuz a lot of times when coaches pick leaders, it's they they have this idea of what they want the leader to look like. But in locker room,

40:29

the leader is not that person. And sometimes when they pick they it's almost it's a it's more of a uh

40:35

something you win. It's not even something you deserve necessarily from from your ability to to lead. Yeah. But

40:41

it's something, oh, pick that, you know, he or she is the best till they leave. And it' be based on position. Yeah. Oh,

40:48

the quarterback. Why is this quarterback team captain? Oh my god, that was the worst team. Then the whole team look at

40:54

the the coaches wrong because they don't really know who the leaders are in the locker room, but they don't really have a post for the company. Right. Right.

41:00

Because they don't really know what's happening. So, do you pick this guy? And it's just like everybody's like, I can't believe like we all know that this ain't

41:06

a leader, but the coaches think that they are or want them to be. And sometimes the culture try to make

41:11

somebody a leader to help them become a leader. Who's the best leader you encountered just in life? It doesn't have to be football. I mean, just in

41:17

life. Well, I don't know. I never encountered this guy, but like I think Booker T.

41:22

Washington was a great leader. Just reading on his works and those things. I think Henry Ford did a lot of like I'm

41:30

just going just like off top off top. I think Steve Jobs I think that I think that I don't think the tech bros would

41:36

be who they are today if Steve Jobs was still alive cuz he was the face that he

41:42

set the tone of what leadership looked like in that space. Right. Right. But now it's all gone and everybody is a

41:48

little bit different. Right. Like but when we had a model he was the first model of like the leadership in that

41:54

space but once he that dispersed and he left the earth then leadership started to kind of people started finding their

42:00

own way who's going to be the next leader in the space and um so him I think that in Bill Bich was a

42:09

great leader Tom Brady was an excellent leader um

42:20

who let me ask you this while you're thinking about that though. Who is there who um is there somebody that doubted

42:28

you like like like like like a person I I have a person that your adviser,

42:37

you know? I mean, is there someone that doubted you that that propelled you or that you you know that really just stuck

42:43

in the back of your mind? No, I don't really think that like

42:50

I'm not really motivated by He said he said he's not vindictive like me. That's what he said. Yeah. No, no, no. I I'm um

42:58

I'm inspired by possibilities. Okay. So, so when people doubt you, it doesn't matter because you know where you can

43:05

go. It's the possibility that that got me to do anything that I do. Like I I

43:11

write a book because of the possibilities of it. Like my number one driving factor is the possibilities.

43:16

Like the work that I do today make I have more possibilities tomorrow. If I train my hands today, they'll be more

43:23

capable tomorrow. So a lot of for me is like there's a lot of [ __ ] that I can't do today. Right. Right. Right. Right.

43:30

Right. That you feel like you could get to that level if I if you work at it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like it's all

43:36

possible if I'm willing to do the work to make the possibilities happen. So

43:41

like I never really thought about like doubt in that way. I've been lucky to be supported a lot in my life by the people

43:47

that mean the most to me. Like you know what I'm saying? Like I never had a teacher. I was a good student. I never really had a teacher that was like mean

43:53

or anything to me or like my wife is very supportive. She believe in me. My brother believe I don't think that you

43:59

need a whole world to believe in you. I think you just need a fool a few good people that are that you respect to have

44:06

some sort of belief. Love it. And I think belief is belief is a bit of magic

44:11

right if we could all give a little belief put a little belief in someone's life then the life can be more magical

44:17

for that person so belief is like you know if my wife believe in me and you know she's who with me every day these

44:24

other people like what they know I have people write articles about me as a you know as a a man but they've never had a

44:32

conversation with me before that's terrible you can't talk to me about the man that I am or the I am if you never

44:38

even had dinner with me or if you met my family. You can't write about me as a man if you never met my wife or my

44:44

daughter or my brother. So, you know, so let's just start there, right? Like, you know, now you can write

44:51

this concept of what you think about the athlete, but you can't write what you about the man about the and about the

44:57

person that's inside. Yeah. So, um, and

45:05

I think that like I think of myself as a as a work in progress. Yeah. Never

45:11

finished like a portrait. Always painting. I like to finish my work my paintings though. But but wait a second.

45:19

So, wait a second. This is interesting. This is interesting because I I want to ask you this. So, one of the first book

45:24

I wrote, um, I had high like you, I have high ideals like I want I want to be the

45:30

best. Okay. Malcolm Gladwell, if you're out there, I'm coming for you. I met I know Malcolm. Well, I'm coming for Malcolm because in my world, in my mind,

45:37

I'm not worried about sales or anything like that. He's the top. He is, you know, he's like my he's like he's like

45:44

my literary father, you know, that's how I see him. He he he inspires me to

45:50

explain how the world can be better. Mhm. Through stories that engage you, right? Okay. Because people don't want

45:56

to hear theories. They want stories that engage them to change the world. But you know what happens? You know where you

46:02

get those stories from? Out in the world. Yes. They're everywhere. Yes. If you learn how to see stories. Yes.

46:09

Right. Then you could regurgitate them on paper through writing. But uh you

46:14

can't, you know, I hate like self-help books. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At one point you got to stop reading self-help

46:20

books and start helping yourself, right? Like we believe about all the people who change their life. I did

46:26

this. I did this. I did this. The only way to change your life is to change your life. Well, it's it's so funny,

46:32

right? Like you these people write, "I had a near-death experience. I've been bitten by a bear. I got lost at sea. And

46:39

now I see the world differently." Well, how is that going to help me? 100%. Unless I get bit by a bear, I get lost

46:45

at sea, I'm not gonna have the same epiphany you had. So that's how that's the reprogramming, right? Near-deaf

46:52

experience, education, and traveling. The only way we could be reprogrammed. Yes. Right. So I think that like, you

46:59

know, I was at um so everybody's two watch list on Netflix. So about it was

47:06

like 80% of the people don't watch their two watch list because their two watch list is who they want to be. But who

47:13

they really are is the Adam Sandler movie, right? They say these documentaries, all

47:20

these interesting things, that's who they want to be, right? But who they are, what they do watch are these these

47:26

things here. It's dumb and dumber. And I think I think that's a lot of our lives. Like we know this is I want to be this,

47:34

right? But then it's like, ah, you know, if I be this, this is much easier for me to consume and just be where I am. It's

47:40

much easier to stay where you are than to go where you want to be. I totally agree. Jordan, I want to ask you. I was

47:46

I promise. I'm keeping you. No, no, it's okay. My bad. I want to ask I want to ask Jordan to play something because uh

47:52

I I I saw it. Of course, I was your friend on your friend consuming one part

47:58

of you, one part of you on Instagram and I saw the the video of of him I think

48:04

that's your backyard. Um, with this with the sword. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Kung fu. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where did you put the

48:10

sword up? The rooftop. Yeah.

48:23

That's That's Now, we were a little worried before the podcast. I thought, "No, no, we roll up here. Bringing

48:29

stories with him." All right. So, um, so tell us about I mean that's a

48:35

whole different persona that you're bringing out. I think or maybe you're letting I think football was the the the

48:43

anomaly in my person. Wow. That was the thing that is not who I am. Everything

48:49

else is who I always been. That was me jumping out of my body to be this thing and do this. That's so interesting. So

48:56

it's the other way around. Like a lot I when a lot of people be like, "Oh, he's a football player." I was like, "Uh-uh." like I'm all these things and I did

49:02

football and football was this thing that get glorified on such a big level that they no one ever really saw who I

49:08

really was as a person because they were so caught up in the act of playing football. Well, I was never I never

49:13

considered myself, right? That was your that was your I mean that's like putting on my superhero cape and going to work.

49:19

My car Ken every day is this. This is what I do now. Writing. I was writing books while I was playing. I was making

49:25

music while I was playing. I was doing art shows while I was playing. I was making interactive children book apps

49:30

while I was playing. I didn't become an artist after I was playing. I was an artist before I started playing. Wow. I

49:36

started playing. I was an artist who could play sports. But then it became this idea like, "Oh, he's an athlete who

49:42

can do art." It was never that way for me or anyone that was close to me. It was only that way toward all the outside

49:50

people, right? Because they first introduction to you. And this was first impression of me. The first time they

49:55

really met me was as a athlete. The first time everyone else in my life met me was as a storyteller or as a funny

50:01

guy or whatever, whatever. But a lot of those people, they even never even met this a real version of me. They only met

50:08

the athlete. So that's what they that's how they anchor. That's what they anchored in. That was just one component

50:14

of yourself. So So going back to that, when did that start? Like I mean I can

50:19

you know as you can see you're you get a lot of your philosophy philosophy through Eastern philosophy.

50:26

100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You get got the get up, you know. Yeah. I made this I make my clothes too. Yeah. Really? Yeah.

50:32

I mean I'm tall so Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I like to wear certain clothes so it's like it'll make it for me. So how did

50:37

that come about? When did when did that when did that start for you? So I think that um

50:47

so you know growing up you know you just kind of are given a belief system right

50:54

my parents believe this the church is that God is this. I inherit those

50:59

beliefs and I'll take those beliefs and believe that they are my beliefs for an

51:04

extended period of my life until I become educated enough to realize that

51:10

there's other things to believe in, right? Or other ways to see the world and there's lots of beliefs in the

51:15

world, right? Everybody has a belief in all these different places. And for me, when I started,

51:22

you know, looking at the way I see the world, a lot of it matched up more with Eastern

51:28

philosophy than anything that I had grew up with. And but what really changed my

51:34

life, like what changed my life as an artist was when I got into psychology. So, you can't beat psychology.

51:40

Psychology works, right? It is it's the thing. So, when I draw, I use psychology. When I do everything, I'm

51:46

like, what's the psych what's my philosophy? and I like philosophy. But then I realized that I wanted to find a

51:52

way that I wanted to live my life. None of the philosophies that existed worked

51:58

for me, right? Like ah yeah, there's things I like about the Bible. There's things I like about the Quran. There's

52:03

things I like about Shintuism. There's things I like about Dowoism. I like I like things about Buddhism. Like

52:08

everybody got something right. Everybody like every like everything like all of it start making sense. Like

52:14

I get it. I get it. But then I'll be like, well, I want some of this. I want some of that. Yeah. I want some of that.

52:21

And this is how I want to build my own philosophy of living. Love it. Love it. And the samurai philosophy to me is like

52:28

they became really good because they were warriors, but they were also poets and artists and they were in charge of a

52:35

lot of beauty. They were high uh high class. They dress well. They care about the way they care about the they carry

52:41

themselves, but they also cared about the people. Like they worked for the people. They were servants. I relate to that. I like the idea of

52:48

being a warrior, right? I love this aspect of like my people, but I can go

52:54

to war with you with the sword or I could beat you with the pen. So my life is how can I in my lifetime can I master

53:00

the pen and can I master the sword? So that's why like right now like to me the

53:05

sword like I did nunchucks I did um I did the staff um and when I went to

53:13

Japan so I I retired because of a trip to Japan. So I went to Japan on a spiritual pilgrimage and I ended up

53:19

writing my retirement letter on the plane flying back from Japan when I landed I said you know what I want to

53:25

make I want to make art for the rest of my life. M there hasn't been a day since I retired that I haven't made something

53:32

in my life and um and I continue to do that every day. I won't go to sleep if I haven't like I would draw something,

53:38

stay up all night to draw to get that thing out to make something. I want to live a life of making. Like I don't

53:45

really consider myself a creative or artist. I consider myself a maker and I want to make things like either my my

53:51

wife and daughter asked me to bake a cake. I look forward to it, right? Like cuz we get to eat what I make. You know what I'm saying? And that's a be my wife

53:58

is a really good chef, but like if I don't really get to cook for her cuz she don't really let me in the kitchen. So when she asked me to make a when she

54:04

asked me to make a cake, I'm like, "Hell yeah. Come on. Stop me up." Yeah. Yeah. So but the eastern So then there's this

54:10

guy, this great philosopher that I think is brilliant. But when I read books,

54:17

I don't read books to consume what they're saying. I read the book to challenge what they're saying, challenge my own thoughts. So when they say, "Ah,

54:24

I don't agree." Yeah. Right. Then what do I think? Right. What do you do that too? I'm I'm I'm telling you, man. I I

54:33

uh we we are we are lost lo we're long lost. When was your birthday? July 20th. Okay. So listen. So Alan Watts, you ever

54:41

heard of Alan Watts? Yeah. Yeah. So Alan Watts to me is like a philosopher that I thought was brilliant. But I don't I I

54:48

want to to make the So a lot like what you were saying. Yeah. I want to create

54:54

a way of living for other people to yeah to live as well. Absolutely. So I write

55:00

my philosophies down. Yeah. I share my philosophies. I write like there's a

55:05

book that Tominoshi Tominoi was developed because of Mr. Tominoi actually. So Tominoshi was a word that I

55:11

created trying to figure out what my friend Miho had in Japan. So Miho was a person that got me to to um retire. She

55:19

don't know that. I retired because of conversations I had with her because she was my tour my guide through Japan. But

55:25

one day as Miho, I was like, "How often do you do this?" And she was like, "Oh, I do this every day, Marty son. I want to do it every day in my life. There's

55:30

not a day in my life where I don't want to do this." I was like, "Damn, I want something in my life where every day." I

55:35

was like, "You like, dang, we took 50,000 steps today. Ain't no way you like that." She's like, "Oh, no. I took

55:41

you the long way cuz I like being around you and I wanted to extend the day." I was like, Miho, so we had lunch. I'm

55:46

like, Miho, you like everything. And I told her, Miho, I was like, I want what you have. And in a very Japanese fashion, she said, "Omar, I don't have

55:53

nothing. What do you mean?" So, it took me about two years to figure out this idea, right? And and what I

56:00

realized was, and I coined it as Tominoihi. So, Tominoihi is a word I made up and I actually own the word.

56:06

Yeah. And what I realized was what she had was a more playful life. Her life

56:13

was so playful. like what she was doing. She was always smiling, engaging, and it became such a playful work that she

56:19

didn't really feel like she was working. She looked forward to playing with new people every time someone came to visit. That's why the video on your website,

56:25

current website is about play. My entire philosophy is about play. Yeah. My entire design, everything I design is to

56:33

engage the imagination. I feel like a human is most human when they're playing. Play. Like there's no other

56:38

time, like that's the only time where we forget the world. The thing is we don't play enough. The other thing is we don't

56:45

play together. No. Anymore recess, if you want to know anything about the

56:50

world and what the world is going to look like in 20 years, just go watch the playground. Yeah. It's every kid's first

56:55

experience with government. It's their first with classism, with the hierarchy. It's the first time with, you know,

57:02

every aspect of the world happens on the playground. Your fights, but then not only the fight, but what happens after

57:09

the fight, right? Just the entire system of the world is not in the classroom. It's on the because the kids govern the

57:15

playground. Yes. So those are presidents. You can look on the playground and see who's the president of the playground. Right. You can see

57:22

who is like fifth graders. That's classism. Hey, fourth graders can't come over here. Yeah. Fourth graders know

57:27

that. That's classism. They can't I can't wait to be in fifth grade cuz they want to move up. That is so true. It's

57:33

no different from us. So the playground to me represents the the play where the we discover how the world works. You

57:39

know this that's a book concept by the way this is my I write this about this my entire philosophy yeah this is like

57:45

you know so anytime I go the interesting thing is play looks the same no matter

57:51

what part you of the world you're in right if we if we're if I'm in um French

57:58

and I go to the playground what they play may be different but the sounds of play right that all that it may be ah

58:05

and French you know what I'm saying but it's still you know you I went to synagogue. I went to I played soccer

58:10

randomly with some kids. It's it was easy, right? And then the what nothing

58:16

brings more people together than play. Actually, we choose our friends by who like to play the same things that we

58:22

like to play. Like you could remember you could remember the map of your neighborhood from your childhood by

58:27

where you could play. And I call those play territories. Yes. Now we don't the the main play territory is on the couch.

58:34

Yes. So, like every single company that's in the business of children is trying to win the the living room. No

58:39

one's trying to win a playground. I'm trying to win a playground. I want to be the number one playground brand. Right.

58:46

That's what I think is the really cool thing. I can't beat you in the living room. You got I can't beat Netflix. I

58:52

can't beat all the streaming services. I can't beat you in that. But I could beat you on the playground. Wow. Anybody

58:58

could win on a playground, right? And that's amazing. Yeah. So play is like my entire thing. So tominoshi mean is the

59:06

idea was is to how do we live a more playful life a more playful life is what she had a more playful life is what I

59:13

wanted and so tomosi means fun friend so my name is Mr. fun friend, right? Like

59:19

people don't know like that's what it means. But it also two words put together. Yeah. It's tommoachi. Like you

59:24

could say dachi or tommo is my friend and then tanoshi is entertainment amusement. So I put those two words.

59:30

It's funny cuz I took my my wife in I was in Japan after I came up with tominoshi a couple years later. And

59:35

people in Japan were asking like hey what's to drove to philosophy how it works and how

59:42

you anyone can achieve tominoshi cuz tominoshi is a state of play. Like we all can enter tominoi. We could all have

59:48

tooshi in our life. But what I have to be able to do is articulate the philosophy so that other people can

59:54

live it as well. This is brilliant. I mean I'm I'm I need that clip. That's a

59:59

good clip already. That's a good clip. No, by the way. By the way, all the clips you can have all I just I'm just

1:00:05

saying that was a good one. Yeah. Listen, you're your your best performance. Look, let's write the the

1:00:12

business rules. Uhhuh. You want to you want to work at a place or be at a place where you're the most authentic, right?

1:00:18

Your most authentic self is the most productive, highest performing self and you're the most productive and highest

1:00:24

performing during play. Right. That's amazing. Yes. So that's totally right.

1:00:31

Play the but the thing about play that we forget is that there is no reward for

1:00:37

play. Play itself is the reward self, right? Just the act of playing like you don't get nothing out of it. You don't

1:00:43

get nothing out of tag, right? You play spades with your homies, at the end of the day, you're not really getting anything out of it, but the game of it.

1:00:50

But you may leave the table either mad or excited like, "Oh, I'm going to get him next time." You can't look, you look

1:00:55

forward to the next time of playing because it's like nothing really is on the line, right? Now, once you start get

1:01:00

into the structure of a game, that's why a lot of athletes like, "Ah, you know, it's not playful no more." Right?

1:01:05

Because play has been removed. But the teams who are able to make the game feel most like play are the ones that's going

1:01:12

to succeed for the longest cuz everybody's that inner child is always going to be present. They just going to pay at play at a high level. Okay. So I

1:01:19

got I got two things. One is Hassan Minhaj is a comedian that his album's up

1:01:24

there. He got mad at me because we went for three hours and I didn't give him a bathroom break. So do you want to take a

1:01:30

break? No, I'm okay now. I'm Yeah, I'm all right. Okay, good. Yeah, cuz Yeah. When do you have to take off? probably

1:01:36

like 30 minutes or so. I'm going to get on the road. I I would say as long as the conversation is good. Okay. Okay. Cuz we can talk. I've been known I've

1:01:43

been known to, you know, just to sit down. We start cuz what we do is we um we try to release them and then we'll split them. If they're too long, we'll

1:01:50

split them. You know what I mean? Just get people. How's that been going? You've been liking the podcast, man. It's been amazing. It's been It's been

1:01:57

like I said, I mean, not necessarily it's about me, but the the whole concept

1:02:02

to put all those different pie Oops. put all those different pieces together that you talked about, right? It's like so to

1:02:08

to bring that to the world and then to find pe what I call less than for me, you're a less than 1enter. You're less

1:02:15

than 1%. That that's my definition of you because you view the world very

1:02:20

differently. You view the the lens that you look through the world. There's not many people like that. And that to me

1:02:27

that's that's the purpose of the what I want to do is I want to bring people to the conversation

1:02:33

in a different way that no no one else should interview you like this right you

1:02:39

see what I'm saying like when you leave with you I got hung up with mood today and you you get on the phone where you call your wife you say what happened

1:02:45

today and you're talking you know you're like hey I met this dude you know I'm going to call her too like baby yeah he was cool I like him yeah you you be like

1:02:51

you like but he you know like we were we were having a different plane of conversation

1:02:57

and um and we connected. I like I also like to connect different people um

1:03:02

around what's what they're passionate about. So for me that's the purpose of this and and so how's it going? I think

1:03:09

it's going well. Like we've got a bunch of people listening to it and watching it and all that stuff. But to me that's

1:03:15

like you said that's an aside. I want to be able to be I want to be able to change the world the way change the way

1:03:20

people interact with each other. change a way like you said we separate like in my organization we've been fortunate you

1:03:28

know that um it's healthcare and but most healthcare companies are boring or

1:03:35

you know they're just very straight laced but I want healthcare and hiphop

1:03:40

and music and entertainment and sports and philosophy and Malcolm coming for

1:03:47

you Malcolm uh to all come together to make the world better than it was the

1:03:52

day before. Okay, that makes sense. That's that's that's that's it. So, yeah, that's how it's going. Yeah,

1:03:57

that's good. That's good. Yeah, that's good. That's a that's a good place. Good way to be going. So, we like to do a

1:04:03

couple things. So, if you're okay with it, and if you're not, just say no. We'll edit it out. Um, so we like to

1:04:09

call somebody that's meaningful to you in your life. It doesn't have to be a family member, friend, whatever. We like

1:04:16

to call them and we ask them a question. Um, we ask them what your superpower is.

1:04:21

You know somebody or you want me to call them? We want you to call like, "Oh, who wants to be a millionaire?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we I

1:04:28

get my phone in my bag. We can

1:04:34

I don't think I belong. Come on.